Simviation Forum - OS partition dead after "tuning" for FS X

Jan 21^st, 2008 at 10:03pm

sbq Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Posts: 24

I ran the multiple instructions for getting a clean install of FS X + Acceleration and the OS cleanup/tuning found in multiple posts around here. I downloaded the 8.5 version of O&O Defrag that I found a link to here and used that as instructed. Everything seemed fine after I was done and FS X ran nicely, but I noticed when I went to download an AVI file demoing TrackIR Pro I couldnt save it (got a file name error). I didn't think anything of it and went to bed.

Today after I get home from work I found several pop-up error messages about C:\$Secure being corrupt. I did some Googling and found some people who had this after installing IE 7 and their system was stuck in a chckdsk loop, but I've never installed IE 7. I also tried to download some more things in preparation for a possible rebuild but again noticed I couldn't save any files, I'd just get an error saying the filename wasn't valid. I tried to reboot but found I was also suck in some sort of loop (looks like chkdsk tries to run but it goes by very fast before rebooting again), so I tried to go into safe mode, but that doesn't work either. I suspect that the O&O offline defrags somehow messed up my MFT ($Secure lives in the MFT). Maybe the version I got from www.b3ta.cr3ation.co.uk isn't what it seems.

I can't think of anyway to fix this without a complete wipe and rebuild, which is not going to be fun at all. Though I will be getting a new hard drive and use this one as an FS X only drive.

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Reply #1 - Jan 22^nd, 2008 at 9:43am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

O&O did not destroy your hard drive and the version on that server is a legal trial and I have been using it since it came out for well over 2 years.

You either have a defective hard drive or your version of Windows is from a very old install disk. Some OEMs such as Dell can also use a manipulated Windows install disk which may not have correct LBA support for SP2 on it which can also cause issues.

If you formatted your hard drive and the partition you installed windows on was greater than 128GB, and, you have WindowsXp SP1 , or, an older Windows install disk which does not have the proper LBA support, that can happen.

That can happen with any defrag program or partition software program such as partition magic.

If its stuck in a chkdsk mode that’s a -possible- indication of a physically bad sector

More than likely you are going to have to reinstall but you can try to run the CHKDSK from the Windows Repair Console. Put the Windows install CD in the drive and boot up, just like you are going to install Windows, when it gets to the first screen and stops, select R to enter the recovery console, follow the directions to get to the C:\ prompt and then type:

chkdsk c: /r <enter>

(or the drive letter for your windows partition)

It may take quire a while to complete. When its finished it will display a message and tell you if it repaired any bad sectors. Try Windows after that but more than likely you will be reinstalling.

This had nothing to do with O&O. its a known issue with many different software products that deal with maintenance and partitioning. There is either a defective hard drive involved, improper LBA support for larger than 128GB, a BIOS that does not support LBA, or, a Windows installtion/disk that is missing the right XP SP2 updates for LBA. In rare cases defective memory can cause it because of a glitch during the defrag process

OR an overclocked system that had no business being overclocked as high as it was and running critical maintenance functions

There is an entire list of reasons for what you are seeing.. the software was not the cause but it did bring the issue to the surface

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Reply #2 - Jan 22^nd, 2008 at 12:42pm

sbq Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Posts: 24

NickN wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2008 at 9:43am:

O&O did not destroy your hard drive and the version on that server is a legal trial and I have been using it since it came out for well over 2 years.

You either have a defective hard drive or your version of Windows is from a very old install disk. Some OEMs such as Dell can also use a manipulated Windows install disk which may not have correct LBA support for SP2 on it which can also cause issues.

If you formatted your hard drive and the partition you installed windows on was greater than 128GB, and, you have WindowsXp SP1 , or, an older Windows install disk which does not have the proper LBA support, that can happen.

That can happen with any defrag program or partition software program such as partition magic.

If its stuck in a chkdsk mode that’s a -possible- indication of a physically bad sector

More than likely you are going to have to reinstall but you can try to run the CHKDSK from the Windows Repair Console. Put the Windows install CD in the drive and boot up, just like you are going to install Windows, when it gets to the first screen and stops, select R to enter the recovery console, follow the directions to get to the C:\ prompt and then type:

chkdsk c: /r <enter>

(or the drive letter for your windows partition)

It may take quire a while to complete. When its finished it will display a message and tell you if it repaired any bad sectors. Try Windows after that but more than likely you will be reinstalling.

This had nothing to do with O&O. its a known issue with many different software products that deal with maintenance and partitioning. There is either a defective hard drive involved, improper LBA support for larger than 128GB, a BIOS that does not support LBA, or, a Windows installtion/disk that is missing the right XP SP2 updates for LBA. In rare cases defective memory can cause it because of a glitch during the defrag process

OR an overclocked system that had no business being overclocked as high as it was and running critical maintenance functions

There is an entire list of reasons for what you are seeing.. the software was not the cause but it did bring the issue to the surface

It's an Alienware (Aurora 7500 stock w/ no overclocking or modifications except a new video card 5 months ago), had been running fine for a year and a half (it's 2 1/2 years old and 1 1/2 years ago I rebuilt it using the alienware respawn disk). It had the latest patches and drivers because I always keep it up to date, and FS X w/SP1 had been running on it for a few weeks without any problems with the filesystem coming up, wasn't until I went through the uninstall/clean reinstall and system tuning that the MFT got borked. The disk is only 74GB (Raptor 10K RPM SATA/300) and there's only 1, no RAID, so it isn't the LBA issue.

Occam's Razor would have us look at what was the most likely simplest/direct cause. Since the machine had been running fine for a long time, and it wasn't till directly after the system tuning/defrags that the MFT became unusable, then it would be probable that those procedures that were just performed were responsible for the issue, and there was at least one other post I found on this board where O&O seemed to do something with the MFT, if at least that was just stop showing it after some defrags. The circumstantial evidence is piling up against the defrags.

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Reply #3 - Jan 22^nd, 2008 at 1:39pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Quote:

Occam's Razor would have us look at what was the most likely simplest/direct cause.

I''ll try this again.. I said O&O defrag did in fact force the issue to the surface, however it was not the cause

the problem with Occam's Razor is that it only points you in the right direction but it does not tell you what happened and why.

In this case O&O may have been Perfect Disk, Diskkeeper, Partition Magic, etc

Being LBA is not the issue, there is something in the system that either locked the MFT during the defrag (AV, security, some type of write taking place when it should not have) and caused the corruption, or, there was a physcial glitch in the electronics.

Or The version of Windows you have from Alienware does not have SP2 incorporated into it. if that is the case and you must update to SP2 manually, after a Windows install there may be missing files that can cause this as well.

if not, then it goes back to the first set of possibilities I listed.

If you dont believe me, dont use O&O and try to find something else that does the same job. In my expereience there is only one other defragger that comes close and that one is over the top with all the moving it performs. its called ultimate defrag.

O&O Defrag is a MS Gold Certified Partner and has been in professional use for many years.

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Reply #4 - Jan 22^nd, 2008 at 2:28pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

and one other thing... O&O Defrag uses the TCPIP stack to communicate with the hard drive. If your tower has any type of sleep or power down after timeout set with a screensaver it will in fact force the network card to shut down and any data in transit through the defrag will in fact corrupt what was being moved

Now, your issue does not fall under the typical O&O defrag symptoms for damage in the different areas I point out above. usually when something goes wrong as I laid out the system is corrupt and wont even boot into Windows. The problems you are describing are not in line with any reported problems after using O&O or other software that may damage the MFT or other files, but, many things are possible when critical system files are being moved around so its not outside of the realm of possibility.

Occam's Razor only take into account the laws of probability, but thats as far as it goes for being accurate

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