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Relatively close to 100 years... (Read 4218 times)
Jan 9
th
, 2008 at 5:58pm
spitfire boy
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Since the start of WW1.
Seems odd considering that I'm a child of the '90s, but it's a difficult concept for me to grasp. 100 years (94 since 1914) is a loooong time (at least in relation to a human lifespan), and yet we see photos and footage of the trenches, the tanks, artillery, mechanized war, and you think... it doesn't seem nearly as old as 100 years.
Perhaps it's because I grew up in an era where at least some WW1 veterans were/are still alive. It's fascinating how human mindset can obstruct fact; 'WW1 wasn't that long ago because they had technology we have improvements of today' etc etc...
Anyone feel the same way? I was interested...
P.S. It also rather interests me to think of the fact that I'm gonna really feel the length that the war lasted - I'm gonna spend 4 years -
4 years
- being constantly reminded (and rightly so) by the media of 100th anniversaries of famous battles, events etc... The Somme 100th anniversary will be quite something. Hard to imagine what the atmosphere of the country will be like during those 4 years.
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Reply #1 -
Jan 9
th
, 2008 at 6:08pm
Craig.
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If your really interested in WW1, the only way to really understand and comprehend it, is to visit europe and the battlefields of france belgium and germany. it's an experience that'll bring home just how recent it was.
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Reply #2 -
Jan 9
th
, 2008 at 6:19pm
CharlottesDad
Ex Member
An 18 year old soldier at the beginning of
WWII
would now be 86 or 87, depending on the month they were born...
Now there's food for thought..
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Reply #3 -
Jan 9
th
, 2008 at 6:54pm
Hagar
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Well, it's now 9th January 2008 & there's a few years to go yet before the centenary of the start of "The War To End All Wars". Britain declared war on Germany on August 4, 1914 which ended with the Armistice on the 11th hour of 11th day of the 11th month in 1918. I'm wondering what started your line of thought here.
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Reply #4 -
Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 2:42am
spitfire boy
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Craig. wrote
on Jan 9
th
, 2008 at 6:08pm:
If your really interested in WW1, the only way to really understand and comprehend it, is to visit europe and the battlefields of france belgium and germany. it's an experience that'll bring home just how recent it was.
I have done exactly that recently-ish...which in answer to your question Doug is what got me thinking...
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Reply #5 -
Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 8:54am
beaky
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Welcome to the not-so-wonderful world of feeling old...
It gets worse, trust me!
My grandfather served in France with the US 3rd Army in the last year of that war... he'd be 109 if he were still alive!
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Reply #6 -
Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 10:29am
spitfire boy
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beaky wrote
on Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 8:54am:
Welcome to the not-so-wonderful world of feeling old...
It gets worse, trust me!
My grandfather served in France with the US 3rd Army in the last year of that war... he'd be 109 if he were still alive!
I have remnants of my great-grandfather's services in WW1 - apparently he was a merchant vessel captain or officer (I think) and quite recently my grandfather gave me a book dating from the time of WW1 containing instructions to merchant vessels in time of war. It's weighted with lead so that if the ship was being captured or sunk the book could be thrown over the side and it would sink, thus meaning it wouldn't fall into German hands... his dad (my great-grandad) was issued it, at the end of the war he was presented with it as a memoir when it was declassified, and it's been in the family since. It's incredible... you hear all about the war, zig-zagging in submarine areas, etc from second hand sources, and here I am holding a book that is genuine and real and comes from that era.
It contains a hell of a lot of complicated information such as various recommended zig-zag courses for different situations... quite an incredible item. It shall be much treasured I am sure.
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Reply #7 -
Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 1:02pm
H
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beaky wrote
on Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 8:54am:
My grandfather served in France with the US 3rd Army in the last year of that war... he'd be 109 if he were still alive!
Your granfather was about the age of my grandmother who joined the RC Nurse's Corps at the beginning of the war. She was about to be shipped to France out of Halifax when my great-grandmother had her located and squeeled on her actual age (16). At war's end she married my grandad (he'd now be 116).
My dad was born on April 20, 1918, which was Adolph Hitler's 29th birthdate; my dad's initials were A.H.
The following day was the circus meleé in which [Red Baron*] Manfred von Richthofen was fatally shot down.
*The Germans nicknamed him the Red Knight
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Reply #8 -
Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 12:49am
beaky
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spitfire boy wrote
on Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 10:29am:
beaky wrote
on Jan 10
th
, 2008 at 8:54am:
Welcome to the not-so-wonderful world of feeling old...
It gets worse, trust me!
My grandfather served in France with the US 3rd Army in the last year of that war... he'd be 109 if he were still alive!
I have remnants of my great-grandfather's services in WW1 - apparently he was a merchant vessel captain or officer (I think) and quite recently my grandfather gave me a book dating from the time of WW1 containing instructions to merchant vessels in time of war. It's weighted with lead so that if the ship was being captured or sunk the book could be thrown over the side and it would sink, thus meaning it wouldn't fall into German hands... his dad (my great-grandad) was issued it, at the end of the war he was presented with it as a memoir when it was declassified, and it's been in the family since. It's incredible... you hear all about the war, zig-zagging in submarine areas, etc from second hand sources, and here I am holding a book that is genuine and real and comes from that era.
It contains a hell of a lot of complicated information such as various recommended zig-zag courses for different situations... quite an incredible item. It shall be much treasured I am sure.
That's cool... my grampa had his unit's war journal, written by the chaplain and hardbound in many copies for those who wanted one. I never did read the whole thing, but it was very interesting despite being filled with a lot of mundane observations.
Not sure which vulture- er, family member got ahold of that when my grandmother passed away... but I have a few war items that he gave me himself: his little shaving mirror, a bullet casing, and best of all, the small 48-star flag he carried with him on his little vacation through the mud and ruins of 1918 France.
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Reply #9 -
Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:04am
C
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Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
An 18 year old soldier at the beginning of
WWII
would now be 86 or 87, depending on the month they were born...
Now there's food for thought..
Unless they lied, which was relatively common it seems.
I went to
Gerry Tyack's
collection, the
Wellington Aviation Museum
the other week, and had a nice chat with Gerry and one of his volunteers. The other gent was an ex air gunner, and I thought Gerry almost looked too young to have served through the whole war - until I read head joined the RAF at 16! That aside, a fascinating little collection that I doubt will be around for
too
much longer, as Gerry is still running it at 84, which is well worth a vist (he has an great little art collection too...
)
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Reply #10 -
Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:16am
Hagar
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C wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:04am:
Quote:
An 18 year old soldier at the beginning of
WWII
would now be 86 or 87, depending on the month they were born...
Now there's food for thought..
Unless they lied, which was relatively common it seems.
Indeed. It was more common in WWI.
Things were a lot different then. I often wonder if young boys would do the same thing today.
Among those hoping to join up were thousands of boys, some as young as 13 and 14. Recruiting sergeants, who were paid for every man who signed up, were more than willing to turn a blind eye to lads who were keen to enlist but who were palpably underage. Too often a boy, in his innocence, would admit to being 16 only to be told, 'Go walk round the building, and see if you are not 19 when you get back.' Most took the hint.
During the Great War, at least 250,000 underage boys enlisted in the British Army, of whom perhaps half were killed or wounded.
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/a-b/boysoldiers.html
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Reply #11 -
Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 10:58am
H
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Hagar wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:16am:
C wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:04am:
Quote:
An 18 year old soldier at the beginning of
WWII
would now be 86 or 87
Unless they lied, which was relatively common it seems.
Indeed. It was more common in WWI.
Which my post about my grandmother exemplified. ID requirements/checks weren't so much advanced in WW2, either. If the parent(s) approved, it was all the easier. An older uncle went to sea at age fourteen, then transfered into the U.S. Army. He actualy did, however, reach age 18 in 1945, before the war's end.
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Reply #12 -
Jan 18
th
, 2008 at 5:17pm
spitfire boy
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Hagar wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:16am:
Things were a lot different then. I often wonder if young boys would do the same thing today.
Speaking from the perspective of a 14-year old... I don't reckon most would. Reason; because WW1 and WW2 happened, and so much is known about them as common knowledge.
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Reply #13 -
Jan 20
th
, 2008 at 8:28am
H
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spitfire boy wrote
on Jan 18
th
, 2008 at 5:17pm:
Hagar wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:16am:
Things were a lot different then. I often wonder if young boys would do the same thing today.
Speaking from the perspective of a 14-year old... I don't reckon most would. Reason; because WW1 and WW2 happened, and so much is known about them as common knowledge.
It's a little more than that, really, with a perspective quite apparent to the U.K. Today's U.K. is a comparative welfare state. WW1 was on the tail of the Victorian era where the military was not just a possible route to glory; it was the closest to a fringe benefit job for the middle/lower classes at the time. The civilian arena rarely guaranteed any form of workmen's comp, let alone any other insurance benefit; it was not common for the average worker to have a job where his medication, meals and housing was the responsibility of the company (however meagre that actually was in a battle situation) and, with little added benefits on any civilian job, that had more import than it does now. Even the average homefront (family life) was different (and, just as Hagar can tell you that this was different in his youth, it also was a generation or two before him).
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Reply #14 -
Jan 20
th
, 2008 at 2:30pm
spitfire boy
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H wrote
on Jan 20
th
, 2008 at 8:28am:
spitfire boy wrote
on Jan 18
th
, 2008 at 5:17pm:
Hagar wrote
on Jan 14
th
, 2008 at 8:16am:
Things were a lot different then. I often wonder if young boys would do the same thing today.
Speaking from the perspective of a 14-year old... I don't reckon most would. Reason; because WW1 and WW2 happened, and so much is known about them as common knowledge.
It's a little more than that, really, with a perspective quite apparent to the U.K. Today's U.K. is a comparative welfare state. WW1 was on the tail of the Victorian era where the military was not just a possible route to glory; it was the closest to a fringe benefit job for the middle/lower classes at the time. The civilian arena rarely guaranteed any form of workmen's comp, let alone any other insurance benefit; it was not common for the average worker to have a job where his medication, meals and housing was the responsibility of the company (however meagre that actually was in a battle situation) and, with little added benefits on any civilian job, that had more import than it does now. Even the average homefront (family life) was different (and, just as Hagar can tell you that this was different in his youth, it also was a generation or two before him).
But that doesn't really explain war-fever....why rush to join up because there's a war on? The fact is that military join-ups surged during the early period of WW1 despite all those financial benefits you mentioned having been available in the preceding peacetime as well as wartime. Basically this means that it must have been the war, not the benefits, that spurred so many to join, because if it had been the benefits, such a surge would have occurred in peacetime.
I guess some blame has to be attributed to the surrounding culture - like you mentioned, the military was viewed as a path to glory. In reality it turned out in most cases to be a (very short) path to an agonizing gruesome death.
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Reply #15 -
Jan 21
st
, 2008 at 2:22pm
Soames
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It's easy to forget in our media rich world that at the time these wars took place, information was very much controlled by the governments of the country.
The people were, to be blunt, ignorant of the truth and they not only relied on the ruling bodies to tell them what was happening but how they should behave. If there was need of people for war then it was "the duty of all good (insert nationality of choice) to join up and teach the dirty (insert nationality of choice) a bloody good lesson."
It's only in these later years that people are beginning to not only understand other nations and cultures, but to appreciate them. I'd like to think that those few men in power are running out of excuses to get the people to do their bidding, but I think we've a way to go yet.
It's interesting to note that in these modern times, we can talk about how current governments and authorities conspire to hide truths and tell lies, but at the time of these conflicts we wouldn't even have considered such activities were taking place. In fact, anyone voicing any such concerns could be punished for treason or sedition.
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Reply #16 -
Jan 23
rd
, 2008 at 1:36pm
spitfire boy
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It was around the inter-war period that people started to stand up for their social rights.... the root princple of today's society. Perhaps the one thing we have to thank WW1 for - the sense of injustice that it generated that sparked such a social reform. It was always going to take a big event to make it happen.
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Reply #17 -
Jan 28
th
, 2008 at 7:09pm
J.
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its when religion really started to take a back seat in society and people started to see that maybe their leader was not appointed by god thanks to free speakers beeing able to rise up in neutral nations in Europe, in Elizabethan times (1550-1650 roughly i think, been a while since i delved in hisotry) many people in Europe where speaking against monarchs and the pope! many may have lost their lives.
It is by no means a modern thing for people to stand up against governing bodies, just back then idea's where alot harder to spread, now a days we have TV, Radio, newspapers and the internet all used to voice an opinion.
Technology allowed anarchy and as a results tradition folds and modern day society comes into play. Only differance now though is that all these do gooders preaching "Human Rights" for murders, rapists and the like have made it impossible for anyone to be punished for anything! because any so called "atrocities" can be broadcast to the entire globe in a matter of minutes!
with the evolution of communication, Ideas are able to spread easier, and more freely, becomes harder for authorities to stamp down on it, unlike 300 years ago when it would take a government agent to sit in on a radical meeting to uncover it and get names, then dead. Today it would take one government agent to hear it, a 10 year court trial for the warrant to search and take hold of evidence, by which time they have got bored of their radical ideas and gone to making software!
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Reply #18 -
Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:10am
H
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J. wrote
on Jan 28
th
, 2008 at 7:09pm:
its when religion...
Aside from not belonging here, that 1st paragraph is inside out and topsy-turvy -- see your PM.
In reflection to our rhetoric here, it is quite strange that, numerically, there are more concurrent wars worldwide
now
; at least one of these could actually be considered a world war, as unrecognized as such as it may be.
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Reply #19 -
Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:50am
J.
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H wrote
on Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:10am:
J. wrote
on Jan 28
th
, 2008 at 7:09pm:
its when religion...
Aside from not belonging here, that 1st paragraph is inside out and topsy-turvy
Well, I'm not bashing any religions, just bringing it into a discussion, i don't see any reason why anyone can get offended unless I really started bashing it with no fact.
My first paragraph was meant to simply be an example of a time when other political and religious idea's where being spread but due to communication to a large audience being hard it could be a bit of a mission, and once people start thing "maybe the queen is not of heavenly descent" then that's where other ideology comes into play, but due to the laws of the time spreading anything against monarchs, or popes would usually mean someone :
A. Took a big sharp thing and took a go at your neck with it
B. Turned you into a human BBQ
C. You sat on a spike in the tower of london
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Reply #20 -
Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 3:12am
H
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2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA
Gender:
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J. wrote
on Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:50am:
My first paragraph was meant to simply be an example of a time when other political and religious idea's where being spread but due to communication to a large audience being hard it could be a bit of a mission, and once people start thing "maybe the queen is not of heavenly descent" then that's where other ideology comes into play, but due to the laws of the time spreading anything against monarchs [could] mean someone :
A. Takes a big sharp (or little pointed) thing and takes a go at your neck (or any other part of one's anatomy) with it.
B. Turns you into a human BBQ
Point being that these things still happen, perhaps no less often, even without a religion connection.
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Reply #21 -
Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 3:45am
J.
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H wrote
on Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 3:12am:
Point being that these things still happen, perhaps no less often, even without a religion connection.[/color]
keeping it in context not realy, i can't remember in my life-time anyone having their head chopped for saying "F**K the QUEEN!"
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Reply #22 -
Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 3:57am
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
J. wrote
on Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:50am:
H wrote
on Jan 29
th
, 2008 at 2:10am:
J. wrote
on Jan 28
th
, 2008 at 7:09pm:
its when religion...
Aside from not belonging here, that 1st paragraph is inside out and topsy-turvy
Well, I'm not bashing any religions, just bringing it into a discussion, i don't see any reason why anyone can get offended unless I really started bashing it with no fact.
My first paragraph was meant to simply be an example of a time when other political and religious idea's where being spread but due to communication to a large audience being hard it could be a bit of a mission, and once people start thing "maybe the queen is not of heavenly descent" then that's where other ideology comes into play, but due to the laws of the time spreading anything against monarchs, or popes would usually mean someone :
A. Took a big sharp thing and took a go at your neck with it
B. Turned you into a human BBQ
C. You sat on a spike in the tower of london
Not sure what all this has to do with WWI. We're talking about 100 years ago, not 500.
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Reply #23 -
Feb 27
th
, 2008 at 12:14am
FerrariF40lm
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my great granpa faught in WWI and got mustard gased and survived then after the war he worked in coal mine and died of black lung. then my granpa fought in WWII and killed Nazi SS and liberated a concentration camp. I have Nazi armbands and SS armbands, propraganda cards,bayonets etc. that my grampa got off the Nazi's after he owned them. I also have pictures of the concentration camp that my grampa took and it shows dead stacked jews that pileup about 4ft high and there are dead bodys in trenches and the trench looks abut 60 meters long and 6ft wide.
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Reply #24 -
Apr 3
rd
, 2008 at 5:01am
H
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2003: the year NH couldn't
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President Wilson petitioned a declaration of war yesterday, April 2, 1917; U.S. congressional response is expected by the 6th.
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Reply #25 -
Apr 6
th
, 2008 at 5:09am
H
Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA
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Joint Resolution Passed by the United States Senate and House of Representatives
Effective April 6, 1917, at 1:18 p.m.
WHEREAS, The Imperial German Government has committed repeated acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America; therefore, be it
Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Imperial German Government, which has thus been thrust upon the United States, is hereby formally declared; and
That the President be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial German Government; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination all the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.
CHAMP CLARK
Speaker of the House of Representatives
THOS. R. MARSHALL
Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved, April 6, 1917
WOODROW WILSON
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Reply #26 -
Apr 8
th
, 2008 at 1:47pm
H
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2003: the year NH couldn't
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NH, USA
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Just an update:
The Doughboy
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