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aircraft center of gravity (Read 576 times)
Dec 3rd, 2007 at 6:22pm

AeroHawk   Offline
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To the aircraft designers,  In FS9 under the Create A Flight window, the Fuel and Payload button produces the image of an aircraft with the center of gravity displayed.  On several aircraft, the CG is out on the nose of the aircraft.  In the real aircraft, the CG is somewhere near the middle of the aircaft.  If the CG  of a real aircraft were out there, the aircraft would fly like a shuttlecock.  Wherever the nose was pointed, there the aircraft would go with the rest of the aircraft fluttering behind.  Which is exactly how those particular aircraft in FS9 fly.  One is contantly trimming and putting in control inputs to stop the fluttering aircraft.  My question is why are the computer models made with the CG way out front?  Doesn't that require a huge pitch MOI to get the aircraft any where close to stable flight?  Is the reference for the empty CG being  confused for the reference datum point for building the aircraft?   Thanks. Ron   Retired Pilot   

 
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Reply #1 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 11:25pm

Milton   Offline
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Hi Ron, and welcome.  Smiley

Of course you are correct.  Unfortunately, every area of constructing a full package aircraft is a specialty area.  These are the exterior/interior models, sounds, panel and gauges, textures, and the flight model.  Some also specialize in documentation.

As tough and specialized as each of these areas are, flight modeling is typically the most difficult for virtual pilots and designers to undertake and therefore must fudge it.  There are very few really good flight modelers around and they are usually busy with the payware aircraft designers.

Fortunately there are tools available to help us novices with building an "acceptable" flight model that will perform to the numbers.  As a RW pilot, you might be interested in jumping into this arena and serving in the community to improve quality of flight dynamics in virtual aircraft.  It is rare to have RW pilots doing this and it would be welcomed insight.

There are a few tools that can help with the flight model development and with editing the result.  See these links for more information:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/hsors/index.html  for AirEd editors and a test gauge AFSD

http://www.mudpond.org/  for development tools and test gauges - Try the Workbook and AirWrench, and Air Update
 

Milton&&Dash 7, Aero Commanders, Howard 500, D18S, Spartan, XP47J, Beechcraft A28 (Grizzly)
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Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 6:33am

microlight   Offline
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Hi Ron, welcome.

There is an adjustment that you can make in the aircraft.cfg file that will put the CofG back into the central envelope. It doesn't appear to have much effect on the rest of the FDE design, fortunately. It doesn't fix any other FDE shortcomings, but at least it should help to cure the trimming and balance issues. Look for the following line under [airplane_geometry]:

wing_pos_apex_lon= 1.000

Increasing the positive number will move the CofG backwards - use trial and error until you get the CofG where you want it.

Hope this helps.

Wink
 

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BAe ATP for FS9 now available! www.enigmasim.com
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Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 7:45am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The problems start when an aircraft.cfg and .air file are "adopted" from a similar model... and then forced to fit..  and the plane is made stable, barely flyable, by adjusting individual cfg values, not keeping the big picture in mind. That's where you get problems at the loading screen (CG out in front of the plane). You can't model a C310 and then force-fit a Baron's  cfg/air  files.


What I do with an add-on aircraft (real pilot myself), is start from scratch, and use the same method as when I'm designing my own model. Use  REAL numbers... the actual dimensions and control surface apex locations from the REAL aircraft. And then consider the big picture when you start fine tuning. Moving a wing_apex might get the CG to look better at the loading screen, but it will change the flight dynamics considerably.


If the model was set up correctly, its center will be about 1/4-chord behind the leading edge at the wing's vertical position (theoretical center of lift). I like to reference everything from there. In some models, especially default planes, an early cgf entry will change the reference point to somewhere near the physical front of the model. I've heard that that's because that's how it's done for real... and that's fine, so long as you remember the difference twixt model center and that reference point when adding/editing EVERY SINGLE apex, engine location and control surface position.

If you sit down and go through the entire cfg file using real numbers; the CG screen will be fine... and it doesn't take all that much tweaking to get the model to behave realistically. It is tedious, but no more tedious than moving a wing apex and then trying to get everything else stable via trial and error.
 
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Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 5:53am

microlight   Offline
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Brett, I don't disagree. If you have the time, knowledge and enthusiasm to build your own FDE from scratch then for sure, you end up with something that needs little adjustment. However if you're trying to 'fix' somebody else's FD so that it flies better, sometimes a quick fix is a better option than either staying with the original (potentially unflyable) version, or spending ages trying to de-construct it, fix what's wrong and then building it all up again. That can be frustrating!

Also, it seems to me that the FS flight engine isn't really sensitive enough to accurately mimic specific aircraft types just by putting the numbers in, and that a lot of the final tweaking is to do with 'feel' - I can't define it any better than that. I'm a regular traveller in all kinds of Boeings and Airbuses and as a passenger, I can't really tell what the differences are between a 737 and an A320 in flight, although obviously the pilots can in terms of control and again, 'feel'.

Getting an errant A320's CofG back to where it should be at least means you can use the controls as designed, rather than having to compensate for a heavy nose all the time.

Wink
 

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BAe ATP for FS9 now available! www.enigmasim.com
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