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Sim Flight Training: PPL: Part 2 of 7 (Read 1164 times)
Nov 18th, 2007 at 9:36am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'm putting the original "syllabus" back up for reference...

Quote:
SimV Private Pilot:

1-Plan a flight of 50nm or more, accounting for winds aloft and their affect on heading and ground-speed. Calculate the minimum fuel needed (including reserves) and the maximum payload at that fuel level.

2-Fly the planned flight holding heading (+/- 10 degrees) and altitude (+/- 100 feet); enter the traffic pattern safely; execute a touch-and-go and fly one complete lap around the pattern and then execute a full-stop, short-field landing.

3-Execute a short-field takeoff.

4-Execute a constant-airspeed, climbing turn.

5-Track a VOR radial and fly to an NDB.

6-Execute a 360 degree, steep turn (greater than 45 degrees bank) holding altitude +/- 100 feet and rolling out on heading +/- 10 degrees.

7-Execute a no-flap landing.


Part 2 will cover a lot of flying procedures. We can touch on the ABC-123-step-by-step stuff..  like approaching an airport, and pattern entry, and flying a pattern... stabilizing an approach.. and so on.

Holding headings an altitudes are techniques that you have to practice on your own. Little tips and tricks  (especially sim-specific tips) will be a big part of this thread.

Flying a nice, precise pattern in a crosswind (or any wind because it will always be a crosswind for at least two-legs of a pattern), will qualify for ground reference maneuvers (keeping your plane where you want it to be, despite the winds).. and completing a good touch-n-go with a crosswind is a good indicator that you can control the plane.

The biggest skill we can get out of this part; is to learn to keep the winds in the back of our mind. Not even  giving it much thought when you adjust your pattern-leg headings for the wind, or roll right into a perfect crab on final (groping for at the ILS needles) will free up your focus... A focus you'll need when flying by instrument. The difference between being able to fly a hold, flawlessly, so you can tend to all the other tasks while trying to get a plane on the ground in 1-mile visibility, can make the difference between a confident instrument pilot, and one who's a hazard in the air  Wink   You'll know what I'm talking about when we get into genuine instrument training...
 
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Reply #1 - Nov 19th, 2007 at 8:51am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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OK... I think the most applicable concept to get out of Part 2, is situational awareness. Where you are; where you want to be;  how what's around you will affect this; and what to do about it.

On a VFR takeoff, you're expected to hold runway centerline until at least 500agl. If, at a controlled field, you've been, "cleared for takeoff on cousre". ..this means.. stay on runway centerline and at 500agl you can turn to the course/heading you requested when talking to ground. Sometimes you'll hear something like this, "cleared for takeoff, fly runway heading until past the river, then on course".. and it means just what it says.

This doesn't sound complicated, but when there's any kind of wind, it gets complicated. Staying on runway centerline is no big deal right after lift-off when all the ground references are near and familiar... but as soon as you leave the immediate proximity of the runway, you'd be surprised how quickly you can drift. My method, is to lower the nose a little at about 200agl (looking for traffic); pick a landmark out toward the horizon, and reference it during the climb to stay on runway centerline. This stuff can be critical, and best case scenario will be the tower guy scolding you... worst case is that you can drift over toward traffic entering on an extended downwind leg.. and even WORSE, is all the conflict potential at a busy airport with parallel, active runways, and a pattern full of student pilots... Shocked

Equally important, along these techniques, is to enter a crowded pattern safley, and fly each leg accurately......
 
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Reply #2 - Nov 20th, 2007 at 6:59pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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There are a couple camps when it comes to initial climb-out speed. Mathematically they're almost equal, and the airport environment, prevailing wind and surrounding area has the last say.

Vy (~75kias for C172@sea-level)  and   Vx (~60kias for a C172@sea-level)    Vx is the best climb angle... Vy is the best rate of climb. Vx gets you the most altitude for a distance covered.. Vy gets you the most altitude over a period of time.

Best argument for Vx is simply that it will have you at the highest altitude by the time you're clearing the airport area. Best argument for Vy is that it puts distance between you and the ground more quickly.

The mathematical equalizers are that by the time you pitch for best glide after engine failure, you'd be at the same altitude, anyway (unless of course it's a short-field takeoff and the flaps are deployed)..

The hard and fast rule; that you can't make it back to the airport with an engine failure right after takeoff, is mostly true... However (off the record), if it's a 5,000 runway and you took off into a significant headwind... you very well could make it back. And if there are more than just one runway, there are other possibilities, including the likelihood of a larger clearing at the airport, than anywhere out in front of you. These are situational things, and only experience can put you in a position to make those decisions.

For the sake of simming.. all climb-outs should be done at Vy...  EXCEPT for short-field take-offs with flaps deployed where Vx is called for. Just remember to pitch for Vy after clearing the obstacle BEFORE retracting the flaps....
« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2007 at 9:07pm by Brett_Henderson »  
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Reply #3 - Nov 20th, 2007 at 8:00pm

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Nov 20th, 2007 at 6:59pm:
Vx (~75kias for C172@sea-level)  and   Vy (~60kias for a C172@sea-level)

Hey Brett, I think you have you're Vx and Vy switched.  Vx ~60 kias and Vy ~75kias. Wink
 

...
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Reply #4 - Nov 20th, 2007 at 9:06pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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LOL.. you're right.. thanks  Smiley
 
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Reply #5 - Nov 21st, 2007 at 2:12pm

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hey brett... are you conducting actual online sim training in multiplayer shared aircraft for sim-pilots?

if so thats great!

sounds like something i might like to help out with now and again.  Cool

One addition... i have tried this before, but we quickly discovered that our keyboard and joystick assignments were completely different, it took a lot of time to sort that out hahaha so watch out for that!  Grin
 
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Reply #6 - Nov 21st, 2007 at 2:43pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Hi RitterKreuz..   Smiley

I've already done several, on-line, shared-cockpit check-rides and lessons...  with everyone form a 310 owner, to our friend Alrot and our language barrier  Smiley

By the time I'm finished with this series, I'm hoping very much to start giving check-rides.. or giving some lessons... and who knows.. this might even catch on. Group seesions/lessons would be great too...

There's no way for me to handle it alone though.. So each and every PPL check-ride passer, is qualified to give a check-ride... the idea being that this mind-set and approach to simming might be contagious   Smiley

Group flights and brain-storming sessions will be fun, too. Say, six of us in three planes flying blind IMC up to a resort island.. trading tips and pointers and helping each other through the rigors of genuine IMC instrument flight..  Control of the plane can be passed back and forth and we can switch planes, change co-pilots after each leg.

I think, by the time we get to actual instrument training, live sessions teach much better than reading a post and doing your own research..

We'll see where this goes..  I'm going to schedule an "instructors" MP session soon.. so we can all get on the same page (your attendence is compulsary  Wink  )
 
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Reply #7 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 2:17pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Now......  As soon as you're above pattern altitude, it's OK to pitch for a cruise climb. Anywere from 85kias to 100kias, depending on how much of hurry you're in to reach cruise altitude..

During a full power climb, you need not pay much attention to mixture, until you're above 3000msl. At that point, it's good to just lean it a tad (you'll hear the power come back up). In a real C172, you want full rich during full-power, because leaning causes the engine to run hot, but as you exceed 3000msl, full rich means less than full power. The "real" way to gauge this as you climb, is by the EGT gauge. MSFS EGT gauges are slow to respond and not very realistic. Just use the fuel-flow gauge (keep it peaked) during the climb.

Next topic is VFR cruising altitudes. I'll leave it to a contributor to fill us in  Wink

As soon as that's sorted out, we'll get into trimming for cruise, holding heading and altitude...
« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:57am by Brett_Henderson »  
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Reply #8 - Nov 26th, 2007 at 7:20am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Alrighty then... I'll sort it out.

VFR cruising altitudes begin above 3000agl ( NOT msl, as many airports have elevations at or above 3000msl).

If your magnetic course (not heading, but actual ground track) is anywhere from 000 to 179, your VFR cruising altitude would be any odd-numbered thousand plus 500 (3500, 5500, 7500, etc.)

If your magnetic course (not heading, but actual ground track) is anywhere from 180 to 359, your VFR cruising altitude would be any even-numbered thousand plus 500 (4500, 6500, 8500, etc.)

The theory is to keep people from flying "at" each other. Any airplane at the same altitdue as you, will be flying in similar direction.

The old trick for remembering, is that if you're flying the "bigger" numbers (westerly) it's even+500. The smaller numbers (easterly) are odd+500....  Bigger=Even    Smaller=Odd ...
 
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Reply #9 - Nov 29th, 2007 at 7:50am

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Trimming at cruise altitude and make the plane "happy".....

There's and old joke:  How long does it take to trim a Cessna 172 ?   ...  "About 20 hours"  Cheesy


Meaning, it's more about experience than method. The traditional way to teach trimming is: Pitch / Power / Trim.  When you near your desired altitude, pitch to stop the climb. As the airspeed comes up, reduce to cruise power. When the airspeed equals what you'd expect for that power-setting and altitude, trim  out the yoke pressure. In theory, that works.. but by the time you lean for cruise and the airspeed finally does settle, you'll be trimming a couple more times.

Quick note on leaning for cruise in MSFS... Since most EGT gauges are unrealistic, we'll use  fuel-flow. Lean until the flow peaks and then lean just a tad more. That gives you reasonably accurate fuel consumption.  In a real C172, you lean slowly until the EGT peaks and then richen two-notches. If you have no EGT gauge (or you don't trust it).. just lean EVER so slowly until there's a slight RPM drop.. then richen slightly. Do this slowly (and make sure there's a field nearby), because passengers don't like it when the engine sputters in flight  Wink

After a while, you get familiar with your airplane... and this is true for MSFS, too. When I'm flying a real C172, I can trim for cruise pretty quickly....  Just a whip or two on the trim wheel; a quick power reduction and an instinctive mixture setting and the plane will settle in nicely  Cool
 
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Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2007 at 10:10am

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Yes, I generally lean by RPM indication, especially in MSFS... my time in a real C172 with an EGT showed me that generally the tach jibes with what the EGT is telling you. A fuel flow meter is best, of course...

In the Champ I was flying recently, which has no mixture control, a power reduction (to a setting which varied slightly with altitude) is used, the target being a distinctive vibration. Yeah... old-school, but it works. This yields best fuel economy/airspeed ratio in that plane... I found that I'd lose about 5 mph indicated, maybe a bit more. In a plane that won't go past 100 mph unless you dive it, that's not a big deal;D

But that points out what is obvious for any aircraft: throttle back a little and you will save fuel without a major sacrifice of time. My other observation with various C172s in RL was that the handbook's throttle setting/altitude/fuel burn figures were fairly accurate,  so often the choice of altitude would make a  big impact on fuel burn-to-airspeed . For long legs, I try to go with the altitude and power setting that hits the target where the airspeed and fuel burn curves intersect, if you know what I mean. Climbing costs a little fuel, but if you plan your descent right, you'll get some of that back.

Off the top of my head (been a while since I made a long haul in a Skyhawk), the best altitude is not anywhere near service ceiling- 7000-8000 feet, just a little more than halfway. The best throttle setting for that altitude escapes me at the moment, but it's about halfway between "really gotta get there" and "I'm lost and need to conserve fuel while I circle". Grin Leaning should follow from there.

As for trim: less is more. In a Cessna, definitely trim off pressure-  do not try to adjust pitch initially with trim, unless you really want a roller-coaster flight profile. Grin
 

...
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Reply #11 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 2:24pm

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Every plane is different.. even C172s of the same model/year... and especially as they and their engines "age" and develop their own personalities. Throw in that the gauges, even tachometers, have built-in errors and flying a normally-aspirated, piston airplane becomes somewhat of an art-form  Smiley

Constant-speed props give the pilot more control, but even that has gray areas. A given MP/RPM doesn't always have a predictable, prop-pitch-angle and correspondingy predicatable true airspeed  Roll Eyes. If one or more of the valves are aging ahead of schedule, there's a difference in the amount of torque that finds its way to the propellor; hence a different prop-pitch and different thrust.

So.. flying the Champ from sea-level, up to an airfield at 5,000msl is tricky ?

ANYway.... Once happy and trimmed for level flight, we need to hold that altitude and follow our course..

That's the next post (input encouraged  Wink  )
 
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Reply #12 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 8:00pm

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 1st, 2007 at 2:24pm:
So.. flying the Champ from sea-level, up to an airfield at 5,000msl is tricky ?


Digressing again, but this is interesting:
The mixture is fixed on the old "A" model Stromberg carb... but I had it up to 6,500 (ish) and it didn't seem to mind much. Very standard temp/dewpoint conditions, mind you... what's curious is that this fixed-mixture Champ has a service ceiling of 13,000. You could use most of your fuel getting up there... but finding lift is an important part of a Champ driver's job...  ;d
 

...
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Reply #13 - Dec 2nd, 2007 at 9:51am

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Hardly a digression  Smiley ..  more valuable input...
Got me to thinking too. If I ever get around flying our Champ, I'll be picking your brain.. Last time I was up at KMRT to take a look at it.. all I got was a shot of it taxiing out...

...


Next time up there, I'll get better photos (hopefully from inside  Smiley )

I don't think I can coax a 172 up near 13,000msl without leaning. And even if I could I'd be worried about plug fouling. Which prompts me to ask; How do you clear a sputtering magneto in a Champ. And if you did have to take-off from a 7,000msl airport.. umm.. can you ?

Anyway.. this is all, topic relative, good discussion. Good stuff for pilots and aspiring pilots to kick around. You're very likely to pick up that little tibit of life-saving knowledge, when you sit in on a pilot's gab-fest  Cool
 
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Reply #14 - Dec 2nd, 2007 at 11:13am

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 2nd, 2007 at 9:51am:
Hardly a digression  Smiley .. 
I don't think I can coax a 172 up near 13,000msl without leaning. And even if I could I'd be worried about plug fouling. Which prompts me to ask; How do you clear a sputtering magneto in a Champ. And if you did have to take-off from a 7,000msl airport.. umm.. can you ?


This is a very good question, which I considered but didn't ask about, and in fact, neither Bob nor anyone else offered any advice on how to deal with fouling. Never experienced any, either... which is certainly not the case with all the controllable-mixture Lycomings I've flown behind. Go figure.

It's possible that the way the timing is set helps prevent that- I do know that in order to make it easier to hand-prop, the spark was advanced a bit on that one. But that won't help much if you're running very rich on a regular basis... some Champs have a "B" type carb installed, with mixture control... maybe that's the only option for high-elevation  ops.

But maybe owners of fixed-mixture carb-equipped Champs who operate in the mountains or wherever keep it set a bit on the lean side... I dunno.

As for taking off at 7000 feet in "my" Champ, the normal takeoff roll and distance-to-clear is so short, I think it would take a very short strip with very tall trees all around to make me reconsider. I did fly it on some rather high-DA days, and the difference, near sea level, didn't seem quite so pronounced as with a loaded Skyhawk on a hot day. Must have something to do with the thrust-to-weight-to wing loading ratio... it may have a puny engine, but it's a very light airplane, with a very efficient wing, all things considered.

That's a nice Champ, BTW... the Army trainer paint had me thinking "Stinson 10" at first, but obviously it isn't... by all means, get some time in it while it's still flying, especially if you find yourself sitting around thinking "I should get a couple of hours in this weekend just to stay fresh", or "I need something new to do in a plane". The fun-to-cost ratio is extremely favorable, and it will keep you in touch with your "inner stick-and-rudder pilot", because getting acquainted with it is definitely a challenge. Grin
 

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Reply #15 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 9:46am

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I think my inner-stick-and-rudder pilot is in there helping the muzzle-loader in me work on target shooting...   Cheesy

They both need to come out and play.


On to holding altitude and course, as it applies to VFR simming...

As good as the ground scenery has gotten in FSX  (much more accurate bodies of water, rivers, railroads, power-lines, major roads/highways and cities); true VFR simmimg is still pretty tough. To get intimately familiar with pure landmark navigation, takes more time then is realistically proportional. All but the shortest, sim, VFR flights will require some sort of nav-aid. Since tracking VORs, and using NDBs with winds aloft gets into advanced navigation and instrument flight; holding altitude and heading on this level is just that.. holding altitude and heading.

If the C172 is properly trimmed, you're 1/2 home as far as holding altitude goes... and holding a heading is just a matter of keeping an eye on the heading indicator (henceforth known as directional gyro). The only time you'll be challenged, is during and after a significant heading change. The best way to fine-tune these skills is to practice steep turns.

Rolling into; maintaining, and rolling out of a steep turn forces you into coordinated turning, else you'll be chasing your altitude... This is one area where simming is pretty darn close to real flying (sans g-forces).

Since we'll be covering steep turns later (and mastering them).. I'll just touch on the important part, that will make holding altitude through a course change, second nature.

Get your eyes OFF the attitude indicator... focus on the REAL horizon... roll into your turn, hold a constant bank-angle (20-30 degrees) and quickly note where the horizon intersects panel/dashboard. that's your target throughout the turn (and keeps your eyes outside the cockpit).. If your bank-angle is stable, all it takes is a little pitch-input to nail that target. Most heading changes will be small enough that that's all you'll need to do. During a steep turn and/or larger heading change, you might have to glance at the altimeter and VSI, and pitch accordingly. Extended, steep turns might even call for some cross-control and power increase.. but we'll get to that later.

Planning your rollout onto the new heading is just a matter of timing and practice. By the time you can change heading by 30 degrees, holding a perfectly constant altitude; you'll find that rolling out accurately will come naturally..

Practice and discussion encouraged  Smiley
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2007 at 5:20pm by Brett_Henderson »  
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Reply #16 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 1:39pm

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Sounding good so far.  I have to suggest Ultimate Terrain X for FSX is you want to be able to navigate by landmarks accurately.  It adds accurate roads, rivers, lakes, coasts, railroad tracks, towns, and more things that would make great real-world VFR checkpoints. Wink
 

...
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Reply #17 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 4:36pm

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But even so, it is still possible to fly in Flightsim using a sectional chart and navigate by visual landmarks with default scenery Wink
 
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Reply #18 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 5:06pm

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Quote:
But even so, it is still possible to fly in Flightsim using a sectional chart and navigate by visual landmarks with default scenery Wink

Very true. Wink
 

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Reply #19 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 5:18pm

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Absolutely  Smiley

It's very VERY accurate...
 
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Reply #20 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 8:50pm

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 3rd, 2007 at 5:18pm:
Absolutely  Smiley

It's very VERY accurate...

The only beef I have with FS9 is bodies of water, especially rivers. They usually are not quite right, or peter out in weird places.
But then again, sometimes the real life VFR charts are not terribly accurate, either... I was amazed at how different a certain lake in SoCal looked in reality, and it is not because of seasonal drought, either... there were buildings where the chart showed water! And yes, the chart was current... Grin

 

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Reply #21 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 10:13pm

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Quote:
The only beef I have with FS9 is bodies of water, especially rivers.


I know what you mean... There are a few reservoirs near Columbus, that are pretty poorly replicated in FS9..  In FSX, they, and all the other references (highways, roads, city-boundaries) are MUCH more accurate. Same with the inland lakes, rivers... and Great Lake bays and coves in other areas I've frequented for real.

Flying a Lake Michigan shore-line in FSX can be done with a VFR sectional on your lap  Smiley
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 8:42am

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On to pattern entry and we'll be just about done with Part 2.....

If you do not understand what a standard traffic pattern is (i.e.  Downwind, base, final, upwind, crosswind), that will be homework  Wink

As a rule... GA traffic patterns are flown at 1000agl  (1900 on the altimeter if the field elevation is 900), unless otherwise specified. And.. unless otherwise specified, they're left-hand patterns (all left turns (CCW) with the runway on the pilot's side on downwind.

...

Pattern entry is a topic of debate. Students are taught to enter 45* into the downwind leg; so that's what we'll focus on for the sake of sim-training and passing a sim checkride.

An important thing to remember, and do, if possible... is to get down to pattern altitude as soon as is safe and practical. It's much easier to observe others in the pattern when you're at pattern altitude.

Good practice is to spend an hour or so in "closed traffic"... meaning, fly touch and goes while practicing flying accurate pattern legs (throw in a x-wind). This is THE best way to make stabilizing an approach more instinctive, and honing ground reference skills..  Not to mention practice in handling x-winds; both while landing, and holding runway center-line after departure ...

« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:01am by Brett_Henderson »  
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Reply #23 - Dec 8th, 2007 at 4:23pm

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Flying the pattern, at least a leg or two, will give you a good feel for the wind... and a good reference for how much crab-angle you'll need on final. Touch-n-goes are good for stabilizing an approach, because you can immediately execute another approach with what went wrong, fresh in your mind.

The only way to learn this, is to practice, keeping the goal in mind... By the time you're established on final; your airspeed and rate-of-descent will be such that you just ride the plane to the touch-down point, almost as though  you were sliding down a rope... making only slight corrections via the classic method, "pitch for airspeed / power for altitude".

If you sense that you're a little low, you DO NOT pitch up. If if you're at approach speed, and pitch to slow your descent (or gain a little altitude), neither will happen. Oh sure, the descent will slow for a second, but the airspeed will bleed off too and you'll end up just as low (if not lower) with LESS airspeed.

The proper method when slightly low (visual approach only.. we'll get into instrument approaches later), is to just add power. This will not only slow the descent a bit, it will shorten the time needed to reach the runway; hence shallowing the approach-angle and leaving you at a higher altitude at any given point, further into the approach.

Obviously, the opposite applies if you're slightly high. Pitching down will will increase your airspeed, so even if you do end up at the proper altitude, you'll be going too fast to continue a stabilized approach. Pulling the power back while too high will allow you to slow and THEN pitch for airspeed, leaving you right where you need to be.

If you're at the right altitude, but above approach speed; you'd pitch to bleed off that airspeed and then pull the power back to resume the descent.

If you're at the right altitude, but a little slow, you first pitch down to increase your airpseed, and then pull power back to slow the descent.

In actuality, you pitch, AND adjust power, for any correction. Just keep in mind that to stabilize, or re-stabilize the approach, it's the counter-intuitive, "pitch for airspeed / power for altitude".

If you find that you're too far off on either airspeed or altitude for this method... then you're not in a stabilized approach and will likely end up going around.

This is the part of a flight where a visualization of the power-curve helps. I'll leave that for discussion, and then we're done with Part 2..
 
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Reply #24 - Dec 14th, 2007 at 7:48am

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My first instructor told me, that ALL landings are short-field landings. You'll always want to come over the numbers carrying the lowest groundspeed that is safe and reasonable. If you train that way; you'll have forced yourslef to experience the edge of the power-curve. A full-flap, no wind landing and complete stop, can be accomplished using up no more than 700' of runway, in a C172, easily.... If your landing instincts are develpoped with that in mind, it's like swinging a weighted bat. When you take the batting ring off.. the bat feels light, and easy to control.

My point in closing Part 2; is that there is no special technique to a short-field landing as far as student pilots are concerned.. it's the only way to learn to land an airplane. Expidited, and no-flap landings, are extensions of the basic skills... and will come to you naturally and more comfortably.. later on..

Practice goals for completion of Part 2: At a safe altitude (at least 3000agl), with the plane happy, trimmed and cruising level..  slow to 60kias, HOLDING ALTITUDE.. dump ALL the flaps, HOLDING ALTITUDE and fly for a few minutes keeping the airspeed near 60kias.. and the altitude constant, while making a 90* left turn .. and then a 90* right turn. This is (within the limits of the sim) known as MCA (minimum control-able airspeed). It will give you a very good feel for life on the edge of the power curve... and make managing that curve come easier, when there really IS only 1000' feet of runway available.
 
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Reply #25 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 10:19am
Relentless   Ex Member

 
Hey Brett, and Mobius. Fantastic guide! Smiley

One question however, I am not good at judging distance, but is this a good distance to position the downwind leg from the runway?

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/2007-12-16_1-55-5-734.jpg

And two, my Marchetti slices the air so efficiently that it struggles to fly under 130 knots.  Cool Anyway, is it ok to fly 130 knots or more, provided you're not stuck behind a slower aircraft?

Thanks in advance. Smiley
 
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Reply #26 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 12:17pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
Hey Brett, and Mobius. Fantastic guide! Smiley

One question however, I am not good at judging distance, but is this a good distance to position the downwind leg from the runway?

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/2007-12-16_1-55-5-734.jpg

And two, my Marchetti slices the air so efficiently that it struggles to fly under 130 knots.  Cool Anyway, is it ok to fly 130 knots or more, provided you're not stuck behind a slower aircraft?

Thanks in advance. Smiley


That looks like a text-book downwind leg to me  Smiley

At a controlled field, the tower would take into consideration your plane's performance.. and get you through the pattern (if not straight in) accordingly.

At an uncontrolled field, it's your call. If there is a 152 on downwind, and a 152 taking off (both calling closed traffic), it's up to you to time your pattern entry (if not straight in approach) and keep them advised.

And.. it's up to them to make adjustments, too. If a KingAir is inbound to a field with a pattern full of students.. more times than not, the slower aircraft adjust (like extend a base-leg) to accomadate the 130knot approach speed, of the KingAir. If I'm not mistaken... during a convergence.. the slower plane has the right-of-way, but ideally (and normally), the slower planes will make room for the big turbine.

If push comes to shove (I'll have to confirm this) and the KingAir has to enter the pattern.. he'll do so at pattern altitude+500 feet.. then descend to land when able.
 
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Reply #27 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 12:23pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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and....................

That's one of the reason's I was taught (and teach) pilots to enter the pattern on whichever leg they're already flying (i.e. .. if you're north of a 9/27, left-hand pattern runway,,, go ahead and enter on the crosswind (as opposed to over-flying the field and entering 45 degrees into the downwing leg, potentially putting you in conflict with that KingAir at TPA+500')...
 
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Reply #28 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 7:40pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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BE AN NDB

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** Bump  ( see thread:  "Putting it all together" ) **
 
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