Simviation Forum - What makes a good regional jet?

Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:03am

chornedsnorkack Offline
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In October 2001, Embraer 170 was rolled out. Eventually it flew, entered service, and lots of 170, 175, 190 and 195 planes are in service now.
In March 2002, Dornier 728 was rolled out.
Embraer 170 and Dornier 728 are similar in having a low wing in the span range of 26...29 m, twin underwing engines, target take-off weights of 35...40 tons, versions for 70...80 and 90...100 passengers.
One difference is fuselage width - cabin width 274 cm for 170 and 325 cm for 728.
Dornier 728 had 125 firm orders, including customers like Lufthansa.
And Dornier 728 has not flown to date.
Why did 170 succeed and 728 fail?

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Reply #1 - Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:48am

Souichiro Offline
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Could be down to many many issues

Initial Buying Price
Cost of running it
Experience with either Embraer or Dornier

To name a few

&&

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Reply #2 - Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:59am

expat Offline
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chornedsnorkack wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:03am:

Why did 170 succeed and 728 fail?

Probably something to do with Dornier does not exist. Dornier went bust in 2002 and was bought by Fairchild. Fairchild then sold Dornier to an American investment company who then spilt it in two to cover the Airbus parts production that Dornier had and another to cover parts and maintenance of Dornier aircraft.

Matt

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B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #3 - Nov 11^th, 2007 at 10:06am

Souichiro Offline
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Posts: 1092

expat wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:59am:

chornedsnorkack wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:03am:

Why did 170 succeed and 728 fail?

Probably something to do with Dornier does not exist. Dornier went bust in 2002 and was bought by Fairchild. Fairchild then sold Dornier to an American investment company who then spilt it in two to cover the Airbus parts production that Dornier had and another to cover parts and maintenance of Dornier aircraft.

Matt

or that......

&&

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Reply #4 - Nov 17^th, 2007 at 6:09am

Ivan Offline
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chornedsnorkack wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:03am:

In October 2001, Embraer 170 was rolled out. Eventually it flew, entered service, and lots of 170, 175, 190 and 195 planes are in service now.
In March 2002, Dornier 728 was rolled out.
Embraer 170 and Dornier 728 are similar in having a low wing in the span range of 26...29 m, twin underwing engines, target take-off weights of 35...40 tons, versions for 70...80 and 90...100 passengers.
One difference is fuselage width - cabin width 274 cm for 170 and 325 cm for 728.
Dornier 728 had 125 firm orders, including customers like Lufthansa.
And Dornier 728 has not flown to date.
Why did 170 succeed and 728 fail?

Price, customer support, competitors.

Embraer has always been cheaper compared to the rest.

Dornier had the problem of trying to get into the Fokkr dominated European RJ market... in the 2000s that was near impossible
Probable reasons:

Fokker airframe life expectancy is way more than that of the competition

Fokker is the widest RJ around (built before the real RJ craze, its more like a small airliner)

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones), Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here

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Reply #5 - Nov 17^th, 2007 at 7:53am

chornedsnorkack Offline
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Ivan wrote on Nov 17^th, 2007 at 6:09am:

chornedsnorkack wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 9:03am:

In October 2001, Embraer 170 was rolled out. Eventually it flew, entered service, and lots of 170, 175, 190 and 195 planes are in service now.
In March 2002, Dornier 728 was rolled out.
Embraer 170 and Dornier 728 are similar in having a low wing in the span range of 26...29 m, twin underwing engines, target take-off weights of 35...40 tons, versions for 70...80 and 90...100 passengers.
One difference is fuselage width - cabin width 274 cm for 170 and 325 cm for 728.
Dornier 728 had 125 firm orders, including customers like Lufthansa.
And Dornier 728 has not flown to date.
Why did 170 succeed and 728 fail?

competitors.

Embraer has always been cheaper compared to the rest.

Dornier had the problem of trying to get into the Fokkr dominated European RJ market... in the 2000s that was near impossible

In the 2000s, there has been no Fokker. Nor has Rekkof produced any Fokkers.
Ivan wrote on Nov 17^th, 2007 at 6:09am:

Fokker is the widest RJ around (built before the real RJ craze, its more like a small airliner)

From what I remember, Fokker is the narrowest classical 5 abreast twin. Cabin width is said to be 313 cm for DC-9/MD-80/MD-90/B-717/ARJ-21 family, 316 cm for BAC/Rombac 1-11 and 310 cm for F-28/100/70 family. Dornier 728 is definitely slightly wider, with 325 cm cabin width.

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Reply #6 - Nov 19^th, 2007 at 8:24am

Ivan Offline
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No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands

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Quote:

From what I remember, Fokker is the narrowest classical 5 abreast twin. Cabin width is said to be 313 cm for DC-9/MD-80/MD-90/B-717/ARJ-21 family, 316 cm for BAC/Rombac 1-11 and 310 cm for F-28/100/70 family. Dornier 728 is definitely slightly wider, with 325 cm cabin width.

but still wider than a junglejet (E134/140/145) or crj

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones), Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here

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