Hi again  

What I meant by anomalies is;  as a percentage of the population, the percentage of octogenerian pilots is very low. As are the percentage of helicopter pilots who solo in 5 hours. I meant neither is a good reference for setting standards for training... or age restrictions.

And yes.. even a 25 year-old pilot can can have a stroke, in flight. There's no accounting for anomalies. The best you can do is adjust physical intervals for age. Right now, for 3rd class medicals..if you're under 40, it's every three years.. over 40, every two years. You certainly can't test pilots every day. Although, once you show signs for a condition, physicals can and are required more frequently for 2nd and 1st class medicals certificates.

I've already conceded that the Sport Pilot deal is done. I won't argue to have it repealed. As I've already pointed out; the industry itself is taking care of pointing out its useless-ness to anybody other than someone who can afford to buy a plane. The bad thing is.. I'd love to get these wonderful little planes into mainstream flying. To do that, they'll have to join the rental fleet.. and the existence of Sport Pilot licenses is standing in the way..

P.S.  my mentor is 76 and probaly still the most competent and able pilot I'll ever know.. 

I'm not disagreeing with with you..  There's no doubt that the amount of training required is dependent on how frequently you train. That's common sense. Obviously the guy who flies every day will solo, and earn his license, in fewer hours than the guy who flies once a week. But that has nothing to do with setting the minimums.

As for octogenarian pilots ?

3800/618000 =  0.6%   By the last census, octogenarians made up 4.0 % of the population.

They're 4% of the population, but only represent 0.6% of all pilots. That was my point.

i personally have turned a few people away for sport pilot training... for three reasons

1. There was no available LSA at my airport when i was instructing
2. The person seeking training indicated their belief that it would be faster easier training
3. I was not very familiar with LS rules at the time

I managed to talk a couple of them into just getting their private. so thats good i guess. and none of these guys were over 35 years old.

would i sign off a person who met the hour minimums? No

would i sign off someone who i genuinely felt was ready? Yes

But one thing to consider... out of all the private pilots i trained only 2 of them were genuinely ready at about 45 hours... everyone esle was around 60 hours.i would imagine it would be about the same for an LSA... 15 - 20 - 25 more hours than the "minimum" to be ready.

some interesting things about the LSA rules however.

1. If you are a private pilot you are grandfathered in and may operate as a LSP as long as LSP rules are used.

2. Drivers license may be used as your medical

BUT - if you are already a licensed pilot and have had a medical certificate denied for any reason, this issue must be resolved before operating as a light sport pilot.

so it sounds to me like any old joe who has lost his medical for whatever reason must clear this issue up before legally operating as a light sport pilot.

Im still on the fence about LSA rules... i just dont think it is restrictive enough as to disqualifying conditions.

My dad has Type II diabetes, he controls it through diet, exercise and a pill (does not require injected insulin) he is 55 years old, weights about 215 lbs and he still holds a third class medical but has to do a lot of foot work to keep it current... for as infrequently as he actually takes an airplane up -despite the fact that its almost always to go flying with me - its getting to the point where all the hassle of dealing with doctors constantly is not worth it. he is a capable private pilot, he is competent and he makes good decisions.

do i think he is going to hurt anyone besides himself if he takes a 30 minute jaunt around the pattern followed by a tour of a local lake over a very sparsely populated countryside? very unlikely - especially if i am going to be flying with him 80% of the time... but it is possible that things can go wrong up there... but if my old man goes down due to a black out or what not... he is probably going to go down in a cattle field or hay field.

on the other side of the coin, take the retired 320 lb airline pilot who is diabetic and working on his 3rd heart attack. and wants to use his LSP license to go to oshkosh annually, or wants to use the license to visit his grandkids at an uncontrolled airport in a Houston suburb. disaster waiting to happen IMHO. if he blacks out or dies it is only a matter of minutes before he wanders into the heart of an international airport, or crashes into a playground or neighborhood.

i think there should have been ruling on the LSP license to prevent people from flying over densely populated areas, or they should have to get a LSP medical certificate from a medical examiner which allows for certain health problems but not for others perhaps.

good looking little plane there by the way

I have always wanted a cub or stearman myself

Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, that my flying has evolved into something more utile and less recreational, is subjective, I guess. Almost every flight I take, has a purpose, destination, and has been "scheduled". Our lunch flight, Rotty, was probably my last just-for-fun stint in a cockpit. And even that was planned, and not just a flight for the pure joy of it. I came close to filing that morning... but that's a lot of hassle, radio work, and rigid piloting to cover 60nm. At the time I pondered filing, another hour would have elapsed before the plan was in the system, an instrument preflight gone through, clearance delivered, and I myself was ready (yeah, it still takes me a while to get into the IFR mindset), so it was kinda pointless. Had that flight been time sensitive and obligatory; I'd have filed early that morning, after my first weaher check.

I got a frame of reference a couple months ago, when I ferried the owner of a 310 up to Indian River, Michigan. I could tell he was impatient about having to travel at 110knots. As we were talking, and I was just enjoying being in the air, he was relating that flying and owning a speedy 310, to him, was just a way to get to/from his property up north in 1/4th the driving time... and that he could take-or-leave flying, as a recreational activity. I think I'm getting that way (albeit not on a 310 budget..lol) myself. We took that flight in a 172. I'm all of 220, he's a bit more, and I had a friend tag along so I wouldn't have to fly back alone. Obviously, that meant a fuel stop and some planning, as Toledo, Detroit and Flint airspace had to be negotiated, and the weather looked to be a factor, too. Flying by instrument was not an option, because that would have made it a two-stop flight, in order to keep an IFR minimum fuel supply on board (try filing and flying IFR in actual IMC where you really do push the fuel to its limit for making an honest pilot out of yourself).

My point is (yeah I have one too), is that though I'd love to hop in an LSA tomorrow morning and just buzz around for the fun of it,  I can't because I don't know of one within 100 miles that's available for rent. The Champ associated with our club, is up in Marysville, but even if I had ready access to it; the times I'd fly without a person on board and a place to go (inside of a Champ's, two-person fuel range) are very few. Way too few for me to stay safely current in what would be a hunter's equivelant of a muzzle-loader. Sure, they're fun to shoot, but if your intention is to efficiently take a deer, you take a scoped, bolt-action rifle with you. I'm so wrapped up in, and conditioned to, the kind of flying that's just as much about planning as it is execution, that (like the 310 pilot who doesn't even think of it as fun) just hopping up into the sky because it's a nice day to fly and I can, is kinda lost on me. I've come very close to saying, "the enjoyment no longer = the money spent", more than once. After you've reached that frame of mind, you start thinking about "de-rating" yourself to something like LSA. I've even thought about taking a year away from flying, and steering that money into a home-built. After you get to the point where you fly a couple times a week; every week; for three, straight years.. where virtually every flight starts with planning, the night before..this will make sense. You'll have seen and experienced enough to start questioning the purpose, and the very safety of pilots attracted to LSA.. and the type of casual, less-committed, under-trained, no-medical, less-current, undisciplined flying it would promote (insert Richard Collin's quote here).

Requiring some sort of medical examination is a start... and since we all agree that few(if any) pilots will be turned loose by their instructors after 25 hours of training; you might as well be looking at a regular PPL, anyway. Knowing that the vast majority of people who will be able to fly LSA often enough to do it safely, will be LSA owners....and considering that if a person chooses LSA training for economic reasons,  they won't be able to do it often enough to stay safely current; one has to question the whole concept.   For pilots like your Champ instructor, the LSA rules make great sense. And the whole GA world can benefit from these planes. There's just got to be a better defined, less stigmatic approach to the LSA rulebook. A modified medical is a start. Limiting when and where you can fly, when you aren't committed to "real" , currency maintaining frequency, makes sense too. But there's no need to spend your first 100 hours learning anything less, than the in-and-outs of piloting, that a regular PPL student learns. If that's how this was handled from the get-go, we'd probaly have an insurance-friendly, flourishing, LSA rental fleet by now...

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You know ? ..  I do remember that moment, distinctly... And I didn't have to think about it long before realizing why that thought popped into my head. By then, the weather was relatively good; there was no, "gotta get there" feeling, and (most importantly) there's an huge mental burden lifted, when the guy sitting in the right-seat is a pilot, too. You really can switch off the PIC mode enough to just enjoy. There's no worrying about anyone getting anxious and uncomfy if the ride gets bumpy.. no worrying about assuring them it's nothing... no feeling obligated to be an open book of aeronautical info for every question that pops into there naive head...  AND .. even if something does go wrong, not only are you not keeping them from losing their cool while keeping your own, the problem handling skills are doubled.

The Packers play at 1pm tomorrow (I've not watched maybe two games in 30 years) and it looks like a delightful morning, weaher-wise. I just booked an early, 172 hop up to Marysville.. gonna kick those Champ tires    .. and be back by noon..

Brett_Henderson wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2007 at 4:05pm:


Good for you! 
Whatever you do, don't sit in the Champ and waggle the stick, or you might forget all about the game...