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Super Sabre WIP (Read 4348 times)
Oct 24th, 2007 at 5:58pm

Dornep   Offline
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Hello All

I haven't been on this forum in ages until a few days ago when I got the itch the start modeling aircraft for FS again. I quit modeling aircraft to model/skin for a mod team for BF2, that got old after a year or so and turned into more of a job then a hobby. So after messing around with this and that in the evenings after work for a few months, here I am. The time I spent modeling and skinning for BF2 related stuff really taught me a lot of new things about the whole process... Or at least I would like to think it did.

I would like to stick around Simv a bit longer this time and bring some nice models to the table while I'm here. There's a lot for me to learn about getting high quality aircraft into FS9/X and when I have questions I will bring them to the experts (you guys)  Smiley


Anyway this is the F100D I've been working on, modeled in 3dsmax. It's still very basic with no landing gear or VC. Currrently the face count is around 4300. Crits welcome. Also let me know if I went overkill on the images.
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Reply #1 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 7:00pm

Greg Ebnit EApilot   Offline
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Looks good. Cool Welcome back. Smiley
 

(AN ODE TO GMAX)     OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH GMAX! How I sometimes want to hug and kiss it. And other times want to smash, berate, and delete it. Gmax how I love and loathe thee. The crashes the errors the reinstalls. Gmax you are the whomb of my aircraft design. Oh Gmax my designing creating temptress. It must be love for you have taken my heartdrive. By Greg Ebnit  ...
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Reply #2 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 7:05pm

Travis   Offline
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Nice work, there!  I can't see any poly flubs or warped areas, which is really nice considering the intricacies of the aircraft.  I especially like the canopy work!  Your wireframe model also shows that the poly count is way low, which is a blessing.  My models always seem to get really poly-heavy, even though I always try to keep them down a bit.

Is that 3DS Max?
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 11:16pm

Dornep   Offline
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Quote:
Is that 3DS Max?


Yes, it's 3dsmax 7.

The BF2 engine doesn't handle 60,000 Poly models very well so that was one thing I struggled with in BF2. After a while I got used to being limited to 3000-8000 faces for my models, and learned to squeeze as much detail as I could out of those polys.

Since my first post I've cut the gear bay's and I'm working on the doors. The rear landing gear on this plane is very awkward, not so much the gear itself but the 3 piece gear doors. Once I've worked my way down to the wheels I will update this thread with some new renders.
 

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Reply #4 - Oct 25th, 2007 at 2:21pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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That is indeed some very clean and simple mesh.

I know that some feel differently, but might I urge you to take the time to UVW Map and create your basic texture sheets as you model?  Believe me, it will save you a TON of time in the long run, and provide some needed "kick" to keep your juices flowing.

Aside from which, all too often viewing your project with some basic "clothes" on can reveal some small problem areas that are best fixed at this stage of development, rather than when done.

Yet another benefit is that if the same part is duplicated (such as a tire/wheel), if you UVW Map the original, then when Cloned and Moved into position... it's already done! Smiley

Many times, this process will point out areas where I can use texturing and shading rather than geometry to achieve my end goals.

Finally, it makes WIPs one heck of a lot more interesting!  Cool
 

Bill
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Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2007 at 4:09pm
Tweek   Ex Member

 
Looks lovely! You could be onto a real winner. Smiley
 
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Reply #6 - Oct 25th, 2007 at 5:58pm

Dornep   Offline
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Thanks for the comments guys.

I've browsed Simv for F100's and I've found two, but neither seem to be very high quality (no disrespect to the designers). Do you guys know of any other FSX/FS9 F100's of decent quality? Freeware or Payware, I would like to check them out if you guys know of any good ones.


@ n4gix
I understand what your saying, but I think it would really throw me out of whack if I started unwrapping the model before it's finished. I constantly tweak and adjust different parts, which I think are finished one day... But find they are totally wrong the next, as I come across better photos and diagrams.
 

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Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2007 at 7:10pm

Dornep   Offline
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Double post but I wanted to post an update on the Hun.

I've finished cutting the gear bay's and gear doors, hopefully I won't have to change them. The gear is 80-90% complete, I want to add a few more details to really make them look like the real thing. They are complex and I'm sure it's going to be a PITA to get them animated properly. I'm not sure how the gear retraction and extension goes since I've never found any videos showing the sequence. I also corrected a few errors with the vertical stab and the windscreen. I've redone the leading edge slats so they will look like the real deal when they extend.

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Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2007 at 11:14pm

Ashar   Offline
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Wow...This looks really nice! Keep up the good work Shocked Shocked Wink
 

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Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:40am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Dornep wrote on Oct 25th, 2007 at 5:58pm:
@ n4gix
I understand what your saying, but I think it would really throw me out of whack if I started unwrapping the model before it's finished. I constantly tweak and adjust different parts, which I think are finished one day... But find they are totally wrong the next, as I come across better photos and diagrams.


I'm not speaking of "polished UVW Maps and textures." I'm talking about spending a few minutes to create some very basic textures and UVW Mesh Maps. Enough to provide something just a bit more interesting than gray putty. Wink

Bill
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
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Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 10:40am

Travis   Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:40am:
Dornep wrote on Oct 25th, 2007 at 5:58pm:
@ n4gix
I understand what your saying, but I think it would really throw me out of whack if I started unwrapping the model before it's finished. I constantly tweak and adjust different parts, which I think are finished one day... But find they are totally wrong the next, as I come across better photos and diagrams.


I'm not speaking of "polished UVW Maps and textures." I'm talking about spending a few minutes to create some very basic textures and UVW Mesh Maps. Enough to provide something just a bit more interesting than gray putty. Wink

Bill


Why bother?  It seems as though you would only end up with UVWs that are not conforming to the actual model once its done, so why do you have them?  It just looks like you'd be wasting that time spent getting those UVWs mapped and such . . .
 

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Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 10:44am

Katahu   Offline
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I think he is referring to base textures where you would have the outline of the model's surface with a few lines here and there. Am I right?
 
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Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:27pm

Dornep   Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:40am:
I'm not speaking of "polished UVW Maps and textures." I'm talking about spending a few minutes to create some very basic textures and UVW Mesh Maps. Enough to provide something just a bit more interesting than gray putty. Wink


If I'm going to take the time to unwrap even one part I want it to be "polished" and complete when it's done. The grey putty may not be all that interesting but I've found it gives the best render's when used with raytracer lighting. I myself think it looks much better them some of the rainbow colored Gmax previews I've seen.

I see your point, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
 

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Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 1:22pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Quote:
I think he is referring to base textures where you would have the outline of the model's surface with a few lines here and there. Am I right?


First of all, I offered this as a suggestion, not a criticism.  I just thought I'd share a professional tip, learned the hard way from authoring many, many models over the years.

Yes, that is precisely what I was suggesting. More often than not, a quick UWV Map and some base texture will reveal rogue polys, co-linear or co-located vertices, and abnormal normals when the mesh is exported and rendered in situ (meaning loaded in the sim!).

I've lost count of the number of models that've been sent to me by modelers who've suddenly discovered that their hard work in Max/GMax looks badly when exported and loaded in the sim, or worse...  looks terrific but suffers from horrible frame rates!

Perhaps though, a careful read of Adrian* Wood's four-part series on "Performance Art" will better illustrate the critical nature of carefully crafted textures as applied to mesh objects, and the need for greater synthesis between the two processes, particularly as the necessity of optimizing draw calls has become the single most important metric for performance in the sim.

It is clear to me (as well as many of my professional colleagues) that the days of textures almost being an afterthought are over. I've now found that I need to actually pre-plan my textures as part of the initial development process, since a lot of the mesh modeling decisions will be affected by the texture sheet decisions... Wink

http://blogs.technet.com/torgo3000/archive/2007/06/01/performance-art.aspx

*Note: Adrian Woods is the Lead Art Developer for ACES
 

Bill
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Reply #14 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 4:55pm

Dornep   Offline
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I didn't take offense to your post (ok maybe just a lil bit).. I probably overreacted, it's just that unwrapping the mesh is the most dreaded point in the process for me. Thats actually what burned me out on BF2 modeling.. Unwrapping countless poorly done models with thousands of broken vertices. It seemed like I was spending more time fixing the model then I was unwrapping them.

Fr. Bill wrote on Nov 2nd, 2007 at 1:22pm:
I've now found that I need to actually pre-plan my textures as part of the initial development process, since a lot of the mesh modeling decisions will be affected by the texture sheet decisions... Wink


I agree with you 100% on that one. It seems like I always hit a brick wall when I start unwrapping my models. I do get them finished and looking decent eventually, but the tweaking involved to get them right takes ages for me. I will take that tip to heart and keep it in mind when I start my next project. Wink


 

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