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Cockpit Construction Continued (Part 37) (Read 10586 times)
Oct 5th, 2007 at 8:09pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Front View Projector Ordered

Well.... finally took the "big leap" on the visual display.

I took a little solid advice from a couple of other cockpit builders over at "Opencockpits"....... and just ordered a Viewsonic PJ358.  It runs native XGA, 2000 lumens, 500:1 contrast ratio, 1.2:1 zoom, +/- 30 degrees keystoning, and at my projected single SHORT throw distance will give me an image of 37" wide, 27" high, and 45" diagonal.  

It offers a larger image possibility with the short throw, and a 500:1 contrast ratio, both of which are better than the Epson Powerlite 77C which I had been VERY seriously considering.  Spent a little more than the Epson one (sigh  Cry )..... but the machine likely will work way better.  Cheesy

With a single bounce mirror in my pit with this one... I think I can get an astronomically better display than I had originally ever intended (lean forward into the windscreen area and sideways and still not see "edges") at a whopping 57" wide, 43" high, and 71" diagonal.   This is within a 5 foot physical distance in the contained pit.  

With no mirror it still will get slightly better than the Epson Powerlite 77C.

The trade off was 2000 lumens on the Viewsonic versus 2200 with the Epson. But my pit is fully enclosed ... including the projection area... so that should not be too much of an issue.

Now I can't wait til it arrives. For two reasons.... I'm doing a presentation for a state of NH art educator's conference next weekend in which I will use it...... and FINALLY getting the forward display in the pit off a 19" LCD screen.

I will document the installation as it goes and show some pictures as soon as I can.

best,

................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #1 - Oct 6th, 2007 at 10:40am

JSpahn   Offline
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Nice Smiley I cannot wait to see how it looks!
 

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Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 8:48am

ermias   Offline
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Congrats on your BIG leap!! I would rather call it GIANT leap. I guess it is the most challenging part when one comes toward the end of building a simpit. I can't wait to see the outcome too. I have learnt a lot from your constractions.

I have been thinking of using multiple monitors unless I get a huge one for forward view. Question is which soft ware or hardware to choose in terms of both $$ and efficiency?

Wide view is one option, but it needs multiple computers and multiple installations of FS and the second choice is maxi vista, http://www.maxivista.com/ which doesn’t need the installation of FS, it needs multiple computers. We also have triple head to go from Matrox.  And there are projectors  which I am not considering at least for now you know $$$ Wink.

Triple head to go is good and very easy to use, it is also midrange when it comes to the cost. At the moment I want to compare mainly wide view and maxivista. Has anyone used maxivista? How is it when view is streched across monitors? I am leaning toward it.

Regards, ermias
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:14am

JSpahn   Offline
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I have heard nothing but negative about maxvista, I would stay away from this option. I have read that the performance of this software is not really that great when used for flight simming. I would consider THead2go or one large screen, personally Im using a 60" DLP TV for the main flight display.
 

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Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:42am

JBaymore   Offline
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JSpahn wrote on Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:14am:
personally Im using a 60" DLP TV for the main flight display.


Smiley Smiley SmileyHow do I get the smiley's to turn
GREEN
?
 

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Reply #5 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:50am

JBaymore   Offline
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ermias,

I too have not heard good things about maxivista.  Warning!  Shocked

That is purely from reading boards and talking to cockpit builders... not first hand.  But it likely is a good indication.

I'd skip WideView unless you are exceeding the capibility of other options like the Matrox 3H2Go.  People who use that usually are runniong WAY more than three exterior displays.  I have also heard that the multiple computers do not display EXACTLY the same image unless you are using the newest version for FSX.  Stuff like clouds are not precisely located on all machines.  Again that impression is gained simply by reading...and easily could be wrong.  And every one of those machines has to be able to run FS200X at decent framerates...... otherwise you bog things down.

The Matrox solution is NOT cheaper than a digital projector...... the unit itself is in the $300 range, and three good LCD screens are going to cost you at least $250 apiece (likely way more for fast big ones)....... so you are easily into at least $1000.  Shifting to three large CRTs will drop the price quite a bit... but then you have serious heat issues in the pit as well as space and weight issues on the glareshield top. 

The projector I just bought came to $800.  If I had the longer throw space I could have used the Epson Powerlite 77C,..... and that one could be had direct from Epson (online) for $599, plus maybe 30 bucks for shipping.

The positive thing for monitors and such is the really fine resolution possibilities.  No question on that.  The good thing for projectors is the large screen size possibility relative to dollars spent to get it (or Yen or Marks or Ducats or Sheckels or Pounds Sterling, or whatever).

Good luck.

best,

..................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #6 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 10:18am

ermias   Offline
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Masternerd and John, Thank you very much for the quick reply and the warning about maxivista. I think for the moment I will use a huge TV screen which is around the corner to retire and go to researching the projectors. I havaven't thought about the total cost of the monitors and the triple head to go. I guess projector makes a lot of sense.

I smell another fight arizing with wife  Undecided well... I'll servive like before!!

Thanks a lot, this forum is a great help.
Regards, ermias
 

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Reply #7 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 11:48am

JSpahn   Offline
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ermias wrote on Oct 7th, 2007 at 10:18am:
I smell another fight arizing with wife  Undecided well... I'll servive like before!!

Thanks a lot, this forum is a great help.
Regards, ermias



Fortunately my wife has submitted herself to my crazy plans. Of course I need to finish a few projects around the house before I start.

I don't think resolution is as important as the immersion you gain from a large display keep that in mind when deciding on what to do.

Best,
john
 

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Reply #8 - Oct 9th, 2007 at 3:51pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Smiley Smiley The projector just arrived via UPS!!!!!!!!! Smiley Smiley

Hope to play with it this afternoon / evening.  Work may get in the way..... but we'll see.

best,

.....................john

PS:  I am amazed at the SPEED of it getting here from CA,.......and also at the compact size and light weight.  Amazing.  Came with a nice padded carrying case like a laptop bag included.

 

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Reply #9 - Oct 9th, 2007 at 4:09pm

ermias   Offline
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John, I hate the notion of work around me when I have something to try and play with. For some reason it seems to pop up as if it knows your intentions.
Good luck with the setup. I hope we will hear [see?] from you soon.
ermias
 

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Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2007 at 4:33pm

machineman9   Offline
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500:1 isnt too, too brilliant... i think ive seen 37-42" TVs with 10,000:1!!!

how much did you spend on the screens and projectors, may i ask?
« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2007 at 2:41pm by machineman9 »  

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Reply #11 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:18am

JBaymore   Offline
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A
MONUMENTAL
STEP FORWARD!


PROJECTOR INSTALLED AND TESTED

The Viewsonic PJ358 arrived from Newegg in record time today.  The box was absolutely pristine as the UPS guy handed it to me.  The first thing I noticed was that the box felt empty.... it was that light.

After completing a bunch of necessary "real job" work that had me chaffing at the bit, I finally tackled reading the projector manual and unpacking all the parts.  It is a very nice package.  Nice carrying bag included.  Power cables for US / Europe/ Asia included.  Very good documentation, and simple setup.  No drivers to install ......... "Plug and Play".  Adjustments like inverting the image and keystone correction were a snap to figure out.  Remote control takes care of the projector controls from the pilot's seat.

Here's the unit:

...


First I tested the short throw capabilities with the projector in an easily accessed location ... and they are even better than I thought they'd be.  HUGE and very clear and bright image in a short distance.  I set the projector up and tested it on a window shade nest to the simpit.  It looked great with the just the computer's desktop.

...


SO......... I took out the 19" LCD monitor that has been serving as my front view.  I then built a temporary shelf in the pit above the back of the pilot's seat and over the "roof" of the cockpit (but still in the enclosure) for the initial "single throw" test of the projector.  This setup projects the image directly onto the forward wall ahead of the windscreen.  The distance, lens to wall, is 48".  The wall was already painted white.......but it is not intended to be the actual screen.... it is just white for testing  

The projected image is very large...... and it makes an amazing difference!!!!! Smiley  On daylight flights the image is SO bright that the whole pit is nicely illuminated....sort of like daylight.  Night scenery is AMAZING, with the stars actually tending to "twinkle" for some strange reason.

Below is one quick shot just to show what I have at the moment.  Didn't get the lighting right to really show the windscreen view... but you get the idea from it.  More later.  The image is not as large as I want it, but is already 38" wide on the horizontal measurement.

...


I shifted the out-the-windscreen scenery view magnification down to .75 and that was PERFECT for flying.  I have already adjusted the eyepoint of that view so that the view I have has me sitting to the left of the centerline of the aircraft...... at the correct distance in the model (checked with Aircraft COntainer Manager and the 3_D pilot model).

I simply cannot explain to you what a difference this simple change makes.  I started flying to test it ..... and I simply could not stop.  AND..... I was hand flying the 146-200 on T+Gs repeatedly into and out of KBOS and it makes all the difference in the WORLD on depth and peripheral perception.  I was greasing landings very nicely, thank you very much; better than I had EVER done before....with nasty cross winds....deliberately landing on the "wrong" runways.  Suddenly it felt VERY real.  And it is not yet fully "isolated" so that I don't see anything BUT "scenery".  IT WAS A BLAST!

I am one happy camper!  Grin Grin Grin Grin Smiley Cheesy Wink Wink Cheesy Grin

Now I have to go get the actual projector mount built, and go get the correct mirror to set up the "bounce" projection scheme....and that will give me a 60" wide image that will FILL the whole forward view out the "window".

More as it develops.

best,

.......................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #12 - Oct 11th, 2007 at 2:23pm

Fly2e   Offline
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John, when can come over!  Wink
 

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Reply #13 - Oct 12th, 2007 at 10:22am

beaky   Offline
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Looking good!  Grin

Bright, isn't it? Grin That definitely helps... brighter images often look "deeper", to me, anyway.
I'm still unclear on exactly how you're mounting the projector; I'd like to see that if possible.
 

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Reply #14 - Oct 14th, 2007 at 12:00am

JBaymore   Offline
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Some Better Pictures

I fired up the aircraft and did a series of take offs and landings at KBOS (with AES services, of course) practicing circuits and hand flying.  WHAT a difference the large image makes to THAT!


Sitting on Runway 22R at KBOS awaiting takeoff roll:

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Turning to final approach into KBOS:

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It is starting to all come together.  The projector is a real MASSIVE step forward.

best,

............john


PS:  It is hard to get the photographic balance to reflect the real cockpit conditions.  I'll have to try a fill flash.  I either get the pit looking as bright as it is in reality... with the projector image all washed out.  Or I get the projectio image good... and the pit is too dark.
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2007 at 9:12am by JBaymore »  

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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