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McLaren verdict. (Read 1782 times)
Reply #15 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 10:01am

Craig.   Offline
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The FIA has published accounts of "systematic" contact between McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan and Ferrari's Nigel Stepney - evidence that led the governing body to severly penalise the Woking-based team.

In a 14-page document issued at the Belgian Grand Prix, the FIA details how the World Motor Sport Council reached its verdict at its hearing on Thursday.

As was expected, the evidence revolves around an email exchange between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso, plus logs of calls and SMS messages between Coughlan and Stepney.

In the emails, extracts of which have been published, de la Rosa talks about information coming from Stepney.

On March 21 de la Rosa wrote an email to Coughlan stating: "Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's Weight Distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro.

"P.S. I will be in the simulator tomorrow."

Coughlan replied to that email with a text message with the details that were required, although in the end those settings were not tried out.

On March 25 de la Rosa then sent an email to Alonso setting out Ferrari's weight distribution to two decimal places on each of Ferrari's cars for the Australian Grand Prix.

Alonso then replied under a section headed Ferrari: "Its weight distribution surprises me; I don't know either if it's 100 percent reliable, but at least it draws attention."

De la Rosa then replied: "All the information from Ferrari is very reliable. It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now. He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our Chief Designer, and he told him that."

The evidence then details emails from de la Rosa discussing a flexible wing, aero balance, tyre gas, Ferrari's braking system and the team's stopping strategy.

Furthermore, the FIA examined reports from the Italian police of call logs between Coughlan and Stepney.

The evidence said: "In total, at least 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls appear to have passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 11 March 2007 and 3 July 2007."

The World Motor Sport Council found that:

"- Coughlan had more information than previously appreciated and was receiving information in a systematic manner over a period of months;

"- the information has been disseminated, at least to some degree (e.g. to Mr. De la Rosa and Mr. Alonso), within the McLaren team;

"- the information being disseminated within the McLaren team included not only highly sensitive technical information but also secret information regarding Ferrari's sporting strategy;

"- Mr de la Rosa, in the performance of his functions at McLaren, requested and received secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate and expressly stated that the purpose of his request was to run tests in the simulator;

"- the secret information in question was shared with Mr. Alonso;

"- there was a clear intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confident information in its own testing. If this was not in fact carried into effect it was only because there were technical reasons not to do so;

"- Coughlan's role within McLaren (as now understood by the WMSC) put him in a position in which his knowledge of the secret Ferrari information would have influenced him in the performance of his duties."


Okay, so I now change my view of them just trying to cover up a lie to them actually having and in the case of the test team/ race strategists using the information. After that info, the penalty is more than fair, and both FA and LH can really thank their lucky stars they wern't kicked out.
 
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Reply #16 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 1:05pm

ozzy72   Offline
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I can't see how what the team does should effect the drivers Craig. They're just as innocent here. However Ron Dennis should be nailed up by his nuts. This isn't the first time he has been involved in these sort of dodgy dealings...
 

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Reply #17 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 3:34pm

Craig.   Offline
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not to be rude mark but, did you read the FIA findings fully?
It clearly states both Pedro de-la rosa and Fernando Alonso exchanged information not only concerning things of a technical nature to do with the F2007 which they wanted to try out on their simulator, but also things such as team tactics like the first stop for Kimi in Australia. With that information, Alonso could use it to fill his car up in qualifying to a level that would give him an advantage.
Now I dont think Lewis had a thign to do with this. I would be happy for him to suffer no punishment what so ever. His involvement is nothing but an innocent bystander in this. But Alonso should join Dennis on the wall with his nuts nailed.
 
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Reply #18 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 3:43pm
CharlottesDad   Ex Member

 
Didn't Stepney and Coughlan approach Honda with a view to future employment?
 
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Reply #19 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 4:02pm

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they did, but were turned away as rumor has it they offered the ferrari information. It was then that Nick Fry contacted Jean todt to let him know what they were doing.
 
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Reply #20 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 5:41pm

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Well, you see, all of this could've been eliminated if F1 had long ago adopted the NASCAR model of "Competitive Parity", aka "Lets all drive the same crap". Then there would have been no technology worth stealing. Grin
 

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Reply #21 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 5:51pm

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LOL true mate. Smiley

I dont like the idea though of restrictions on teams running the same cars, I think part of the fun is seeing what each team brings to the title race. I dont buy into the theory that the car is what matters more than the driver. You put a bad driver in a good car your still going to get inconsistant and poor results. The whole idea that overtaking in F1 is impossible is also ridiculous, it's not difficult because of the wings and crap, its because in general the drivers are that much closer in terms of ability, especially up near the front. Yes the additional wings dont help, but I dont think that we'll see much differant racing when they are gone.
 
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Reply #22 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 5:57pm
CharlottesDad   Ex Member

 
Big fat slick tyres, no traction control and manual gearboxes are the way forward (or backwards  Tongue ) for F1.. more emphasis on mechanical grip than aero grip. Then we may see a bit more overtaking... The bigger the balls, the faster the car.  Cool
 
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Reply #23 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 6:11pm

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2009, 2008, never going to happen. Are the responses for your suggestions. I agree on the first two, but from a purely safety point of view, I would not shed a tear if the idea of manual gearboxes was never thought of again. The paddle shifts are much safer, what I would like to see banned are the systems that stop a driver downshifting too far and too early. They are now so advanced that it automatically knows which corner a driver is about to come to, and it knows the lowest gear needed, so it stops you going to far down. Those should be banned, at least a driver would have to then think about the gear shifts.
 
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Reply #24 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 3:29am

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I don't think I've ever had a thread run so long  Grin Grin

I think Alonso should be taking as much of a hit as the team given the rather obvious evidence against him. I'd say removal of his points for this season and a ban for next season along with a fine wouldn't be over the top.
 

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Reply #25 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 4:00am

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Quote:
Big fat slick tyres, no traction control and manual gearboxes are the way forward (or backwards   ) for F1.. more emphasis on mechanical grip than aero grip.

Let's keep some wing on them. I mean when they were going airborn from cresting the hills, well, that was just a bit much. But I must admit my heart speeds up a bit when I see footage from the 70's and earlier.
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The bigger the balls, the faster the car.

Add talent and abilty to that and we'll have some real racing.
Quote:
The paddle shifts are much safer, what I would like to see banned are the systems that stop a driver downshifting too far and too early. They are now so advanced that it automatically knows which corner a driver is about to come to, and it knows the lowest gear needed, so it stops you going to far down. Those should be banned, at least a driver would have to then think about the gear shifts.

Agreed. Some selections will, at the touch of a button, automatically drop the exact number of gears for the corner being negotiated and at the proper revs. A bit much, eh?
Quote:
I think Alonso should be taking as much of a hit as the team given the rather obvious evidence against him. I'd say removal of his points for this season and a ban for next season along with a fine wouldn't be over the top.

Seems he should've received something, given the evidence. Frankly, I always wished he eould have stayed with Renault. At least Flavio has to more fun to be around.
 

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Reply #26 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 4:34am

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So the question is, what was the Bernie input to keep Alonso on the grid. It would appear that my use of the word cheating was not so wrong Craig. Alonso should have been disqualified and removed fom the grid, as it has been shown that he was directly receiving and using the Ferrari information.
Any word or rumours as to the reaction from Mercedes and Mercedes plans for next year?

Matt
 

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Reply #27 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 4:35am

C   Offline
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eno wrote on Sep 15th, 2007 at 3:29am:
I don't think I've ever had a thread run so long  Grin Grin


Just mention a badger. It'd be huge.

Maybe it's time the sport opened up. Lets make corporate espionage legal... Smiley
 
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Reply #28 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 5:01am

Craig.   Offline
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I liked the idea of rotating drivers.
Add that to your idea charlie, just think of the cars by the end of the season Shocked
 
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Reply #29 - Sep 15th, 2007 at 7:02am

C   Offline
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expat wrote on Sep 15th, 2007 at 4:34am:
So the question is, what was the Bernie input to keep Alonso on the grid. It would appear that my use of the word cheating was not so wrong Craig. Alonso should have been disqualified and removed fom the grid, as it has been shown that he was directly receiving and using the Ferrari information.
Any word or rumours as to the reaction from Mercedes and Mercedes plans for next year?

Matt


Intersting article in today's Times, basically suggesting Alonso threatened to be a "whistle blower" if McLaren didn't make him the definate no. 1. Due to the nature of the email leaks, and very indiscreet conversation, it may well be curtains at McLaren for both Alonso and P de la R...
 
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