Simviation Forum - knife edge

Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 12:02pm

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I have got back into doing Fs aerobatics, but i am having problems doing knife edges down runways, how do you people try to stay at the same altitude and get so low. I always turn or drop the right wing into the ground lol. Thanks for any advice.

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Reply #1 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 12:49pm

EGNX Offline
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A little bit of rudder to keep nose pointing upward never hurt anyone.... Wink

Make sure the aircraft your flying is represent realistically in the sim... or else it will be simply impossilbe to do certain stunts...

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Reply #2 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 12:52pm

FsNovice Offline
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EGNX wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 12:49pm:

A little bit of rudder to keep nose pointing upward never hurt anyone.... Wink

Thanks, thats what i was missing. the plane i wish to fly that stunt in the spitfire

When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return – Leonardo da Vinci.

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Reply #3 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 3:44pm

ozzy72 Offline
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http://www.simviation.com/fshelp.htm about a third of the way down the page on the right under FS2004 you'll find my aerobatics tutorial. It'll teach you all you need to know. However a Spit won't knife edge due to its power to weight ratio....

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #4 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 6:10pm

Isak922 Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 3:44pm:

http://www.simviation.com/fshelp.htm about a third of the way down the page on the right under FS2004 you'll find my aerobatics tutorial. It'll teach you all you need to know. However a Spit won't knife edge due to its power to weight ratio....

I'm sure it's possible for a few milliseconds. Heck, I bet an AN-225 can be Knife-Edged... before it starts loosing massive amounts of altitude in an extremely short period of time Wink

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Reply #5 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 5:24am

ozzy72 Offline
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You can turn it on its side and sink but you cannot achieve a true knife edge Wink

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #6 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:32am

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ozzy72 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2007 at 5:24am:

You can turn it on its side and sink but you cannot achieve a true knife edge Wink

What constitutes a TRUE knife edge? I am keen to try it out in my An-225 now...

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Reply #7 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 1:09pm

ozzy72 Offline
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The closest you'll get to a knife edge in a 225 is this little stunt I did many moons ago after Mayor Daley attacked and destroyed Meigs Wink

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1091212448

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #8 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 3:26pm

Isak922 Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2007 at 1:09pm:

The closest you'll get to a knife edge in a 225 is this little stunt I did many moons ago after Mayor Daley attacked and destroyed Meigs Wink

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1091212448

Ozzy, you should record all your stunts (Re-do all the infamous ones and record them with the Recorder Module)! I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be alone in loving to watch them all performed!

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Reply #9 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 3:57pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Once I've got a PC that can do it without stuttering something terrible I'll do it. So far all recorder modules slow my machine down excessively. I need something to replace my nearly 7 year old beastie Smiley

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #10 - Aug 26^th, 2007 at 12:51am

Splinter562 Offline
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Sadly, you can't really do a true knife edge like you see in the air shows in FS. Most flight sims, including MSFS, do fairly well in normal flight conditions but start to break down towards the edge of the envelope. This is because it is very difficult to accurately model high alpha, high beta, and trans/supersonic conditions on a desktop. Commercial Level-C and D simulators can have several dozen computers to achieve the tolerances needed for certification.

For knife edges in particular, I do not believe that MSFS is accounting for side-lift in its simulation. Many competition aerobatic aircraft will use the fuselage to generate some lift force. This aids in sustaining the knife edge for a longer period of time. Without it, you are relying solely on momentum and the vertical component of the engine's thrust which won't last you for long.

Another one that does not work particularly well in MSFS is the spin. I've only seen a couple add-on aircraft that allow for reasonable recreation of spins, but even those had some areas where they broke down (incipient stage and airspeed). They seemed to be more faked that actually simulated, but they worked well enough to get the point across.

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