Simviation Forum - Quadrant building. -design stage-

Reply #15 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 11:26am

machineman9 Offline
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my tutorial says 200Kohm

hmm, ill do a right and left engine, be suitable for a 737 or other prop. i just need a good design, i dont want anything goofy looking lol

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Reply #16 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 12:05pm

machineman9 Offline
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oh wow, on Maplin there is a key switch. that could work as the magneto couldnt it?

i am so going to have to check this all works as i dont want to waste £5 on componants later on hehe

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Reply #17 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 12:25pm

machineman9 Offline
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the landing gear would be a button wouldnt it? its either on or off, you cant as such leave the gear half up or down can you? so, this is probably to JBaymore... how could i make a landing gear go on this thing? i am going to make it so that 3 seconds after flipping the gear, the lights change. how did you make your gear? how could it fit into a single button switch?

current things it will have:

1x magneto key switch
2x toggle (stick) switch- 1 for lights, unsure about the other
1x landing gear (consulting how it would work)- 3 lights for it
2x throttles, for left and right. if im not using the trim or the L.G is a switch, i will have 4 throttles.

so, thats the Alpha release of how the thing will function. ive only got 4 pots and 4 switches to use remember

any ideas? please say

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Reply #18 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 1:02pm

JBaymore Offline
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machineman,

Again,... see the master thread that links to all of my pit construction. Liekly the answers to ALL trhese questions are in there.

best,

................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #19 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 1:30pm

machineman9 Offline
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i looked at section 19 (the bit about constructing the gear) and some later ones (you have 2 lots of part 24 in the master thread too) but i couldnt find anything on how the actual componant functions. the lights should be quite easy i think. i can take power from another 5v in from the MIDI, and then im sure i can figure out how to construct a PCB or something to change the power to the the red/green LEDs respectively. if i cant, ill either ask for help on on here/another forum, or ask my grandad who is an ex-electrician

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Reply #20 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 2:34pm

JBaymore Offline
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machineman,

To light lights like the gear lights you want to extract the data from within the sim itself. The speed at which the gear deploy and retract is specified in the aircraft's config files. Every plane is different, and the tricycle gear do not ALL move at the same pace. So the lights will come on and go off in sequence....not at the same time. You want to lights on the simpit stuff to reflect the real progression of events. So that when you look at the aircraft in spot view, when the gear are fully DOWWN... the lights go green.... and while they are in transit, they are red..... and PARTICULARLY... it they DON'T go down... the indicator CORRECTLY reflects this fact.

SO..........

You don't want to use a switch on the external panel to control these lights. That would not "tie" into the sim. Fo this function you need a couple of thngs. First is a way to get the gear position data out of the sim so you can read it. This is the job of the payware version of FSUIPC. It gives you access to that kind of data. Second is some sort of interface card that allows you to take the information you get from FSUIPC and use it to cause something to happen in the physical world (your pit). This is the job of something like a Phidgets input/output card copmbined with the freeware FS2Phidget software.

You hook a 5V output from a Phidgets card to the terminals of a LED. You mount the LED in the place that you want the indicatror lamp to be for (say) the nose gear position. You then tell FS2Phidget that when the numerical value of a certain memory location in FSUIPC (called and offset) is a certain value, send 5V to the output that the LED is connected to. It lights up only when this condition is true. Using a PAIR of LEDs in this manner , one red and one green, gives you your nose gear positon lights. Repeat for the two main gear.

FSUIPC will set you back about $30. An interface card (that will run multiple inputs and outputs) can cost anything from merely a few bucks if you KNOW how to design and build your own, to about $100 (or more) for a pre-built one.

The Phidgets TextLCD unit sells for about $120. It will display two lines of 20 characters of text. SO you can for example display the fuel level in your left aux, left main, center, right main, and right aux tanks and one other vlaue (max 3 values per line of text) PLUS it will allow the connection of 8 analog inputs(that you can assign to stuff like joystick axis functions, barometric pressure control, OBS settings, etc.), PLUS 8 digital inputs (that allow hooking up 8 switches to control whatever you want), PLUS 8 digital outputs ... that can drive such stuff as LEDs.

My landing gear lights are hooked to a TextLCD. The three gear, including both red and green options takes 6 digital outputs. If you used the same unit for rthe switch that controls the gears going up and down,. thjat would take two digital inputs. That leaves two digital outputs for other functions and 6 digital inputs.

That is a very versatile unit ........ and if you were to just purchase one interface to get started,.....that might be a good one to get to get your feet wet with cockpit building. A lot of "bang for the buck".

Got a Birthday coming? Wink

best,

....................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #21 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 2:42pm

machineman9 Offline
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my birthday is in february, unfortunately.

but thanks, that does answer those questions yes. i just spent the last half hour drawing a basic diagram for how the wiring could go for the button and lighting rig too

ill look into it. i wanted to keep this project as close to £0 as possible, im at about £15 ($30) already and had expected this to double atleast for the finished thing. however, most of the real throttle quadrants are about £120 or more, and mine already has much more functionality

ill have a look into the programs, im sure i can find a way to fit them in. if i cant get the componants and the permission to tear open our computer tower then it will be a definate possibility. if not, then i guess i could integrate a dial on the side that you can change, or just leave it for a couple of seconds as an average thing.

it wasnt primarily designed to be accurate, i just wanted something cheap to do the job. but hey, im at this stage already. i guess there isnt much harm in giving a little realism

thanks John, youve been a great help so far (you and the rest of SimV be begging for mercy when i try to put the thing together Grin

)

edit: any reccomendations on this sort of interface card so i know what im buying?

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Reply #22 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 2:59pm

JBaymore Offline
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Here's the Phidgets TextLCD:

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/2734-Text-LCD.aspx

Here's an output only controller that will light up up to 64 LEDs:

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/2732-LED-Controller-Boards.aspx

Here's a selcetion of combination in and out units:

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/3104-Phidget-I-O-Boards.aspx

Here's an assortment of "kits":

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/3125-Development-Kits.aspx

best,

.....john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #23 - Aug 10^th, 2007 at 3:02pm

machineman9 Offline
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aah, i thought it was more of a PCI type thing. thanks, but that is really getting too expensive for this project. i cant go spending £55 on things quite yet.

i might not bother with the lights, it was either that interface card or to make a circuit for it... one is too expensive and the other im too in-experienced to design

thanks still, ill remember it for when i do make my full sim in a couple of years

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Reply #24 - Aug 11^th, 2007 at 7:57am

machineman9 Offline
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here is the very basic design of how it will look... a half hour replica made in anim8or

the lights will be slightly submerged and other things, but thats a basic view of things

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Reply #25 - Aug 11^th, 2007 at 12:00pm

JBaymore Offline
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machineman,

Lookin' good. You might want to add a sixth lever on the left of the throttles which is set up to act as one for the speedbrake/spoilers. Even if you don't connect it now... you likely will later.

Mini Tutorial: As a thought, you can do some amazing stuff with "physical logic" using standard real switches and point to point wiring and some LEDs. The following is just as EXAMPLE.

Let's say that you want your APU to start only if the APU fuel pump is already set to "on" and the APU gen to only be "on" if the APU is already running. Well, you could use a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch for the APU fuel pump, the APU start/run, and the APU Gen on. You'll use the LEFT set of contacts on those switches for any interface you might want directly into the sim....... involving an unfortunately "expensive" interface card....... which we'll leave to a later date here given your prior comments.

(WARNING.... do not get any voltage from an external source mentioned here on any contacts that might get hooked up directly with computer components...... unless you want to destroy a computer! Shocked

)

But on the RIGHT side of each switch there are ALSO three more contacts that have nothing to do with the LEFT hand side (that's what the "double pole" means). There is the center pole which you can think of as "common", and the top on and the bottom ones. When the switch is in the "up" position the top contact is connected to the center common contact... thereby completing a circuit between the two. When it is in the down position, the center connects to the bottom contact and disconnects from the top contact.

So........... first you get yourself a source of something between 5 V DC and 12 V DC so you have a power source that you can use to light up some LEDs (and do other things too). You COULD use a battery...... but something like an old CB radio base power supply that hooks to 110V AC would be a GREAT source. Or an old computer power supply (watch out on that one... it is not as easy as you think).

Now depending on the voltage you are using you will ALSO need what is called a "current limiting resistor" to be placed into the positive lead of EACH LED to keep too much current form flowing thru it and burning it out. The exact value of this resistor will depend on the exact voltage that you decide to use. Some LEDs come with an integrated resistor, particularly those for use with 12 V DC. Talk to your electronics store to get the right value. Luckily low wattage resistors are dirt cheap.

To the center pole of the RIGHT hand side of your APU Fuel Pump DPDT switch you connect the +12VDC connection. To the up position (on) RIGHT hand side contact you run a wire that connects to the CENTER common RIGHT hand side contact of the DPDT switch that is to be the APU Start/Run switch. You also connect a second wire to this same "on" contact (on sw#1) and run it to the positive connection side of a LED (with the resistor) that will be the indicator that the APU fuel pump is "on".

So now if the APU Fuel Pump run switch is in the "on" position, there will be +12 on the center contact of the APU Start switch and there will be 12V on the positive lead of the LED. When we get finished with all the connections... in this case the green "APU FUEL PUMP" indicator LED will then light up.

You could also add a wire to the "off" bottom contact of the APU Fuel Pump switch and run it to an amber or red LED. Then when this switch is in the "off" position, that LED will be lit...and tell you that the APU pump is not currently "on".

So now 12V is routed thru the first Fuel Pump switch when it is on and reaches the APU Start/Run switch. You now connect this switches top "on" contact to the center contact of the APU Generator switch. Then when THIS switch is set to the "on" position, the 12V will reach the whateever you have connected to the top contact position of the APU Generator switch. Again you ALSO connect to the green "APU START/RUN" indicator LED.

You can also add the "not on" indicator LEDs to every switch described here if you like.

So when the APU Fuel Pump switch is changed from "off" to "on", the indicator goes from amber to green AND the APU Start indicator, which has been completely off up until now, lights up to amber. Then when you flip the APU Start switch to "on", the run indicator goes from amber to green AND the APU Gen indicator goes to amber. Only when all the switches are in the "on" position do you get all green lights on the "system".

AND importantly... if you flip any of the other switches to the on position before the switch "ahead" of it in the "chacklist sequence" is turned on... nothing happens to the LEDs. The only exception is if eventually they are ALL in the "on" position. But it is close enough Wink

.

You also now have to connect the negative side of the LED power connections to make a complete circuit for electricity to flow. That gets wired directly to each LED.

You have to understand the limitation of this type of approach. There is no real connection to the sim. So if the APU in the sim does some sort of "fault"...... this will NOT be reflected back on the physical panel. So this approach is only good for systems that you do not expect to ever do something unexpected in the sim itself.

Without some interface into the sim itself, this is pretty much all "eye candy". This is where an interface card comes in

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Reply #26 - Aug 11^th, 2007 at 12:36pm

JBaymore Offline
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Mini-Tutorial Part II

So now we likely want to actually "DO" something in the sim. Remember that this is an EXAMPLE for ideas ...and I am keeping this as a simple one.

In this case we would like to have the APU turn on in the sim.

There is only one of two ways to do this. Using an interface card.... or the cheaper approach of using a "hacked keyboard".

Lets say that the assignable keypress for APU /StartRun is "U" in the sim, and there are no keypresses for APU fuel pump or for APU generator. AND we are going to ignore the difference between "momentary" contact switches and "toggle" switches for the time being. (this is an example only)

We now look at those LEFT hand poles on the DPDT switches.

First we connect a wire from the LEFT hand pole top "on" position on the APU Fuel Pump switch and run it to one side of the contacts for the "U" key on a keyboard.

Now we take the common pole on the APU Fuel Pump switch LEFT connection and run it to the common position on the APU Start switch. So when the APU Fuel Pump switch is in the "on" position....it now connects to the APU Start/Run switch...and hence when that switch is thrown to the "on" position the connection from the keyboards U key is made thru to there. So we now run a wire from the "on" position of the LEFT side of the APU Start/Run switch and connect to the common pole of the APU Gen switch. Then we connect the top "on" pole of that last switch to the OTHER ocntact of the "U" key on our keyboard.

When ALL the switches are in the "on" position, we have the one set of contacts on the keyboard "U" key connected to the OTHER set of contacts on the "U" key. We have just sent a keypress. (A single LONG keypress........ since this is a toggle switch.)

The problem here is that the toggle switch remains "on" as long as it is set to "on". So this sends a string of "U"s at the repeat rate of the keyboard as long as all the APU switches are "on". Not what you really want. So there is a modification that I will NOT get into here that allows a toggle type switch to act like a momentary switch that solves this. (Do some research.)

The easier but more expensive solution is to make the connections mentioned above not to a keyboard, but to the two terminals for one input on a keyboard interface card of some sort.... like a Hagstrom KE 72. Or the afroementioned Phidgets cards. They have internal software that makes a toggle switch act like a momentary switch (act like a keyboard).

So there you have a little nudge on making a more detailed panel of some sort. Get some switches, some alligator clips, some LEDs and a battery, and play with the possibilities.

You can get crazy with this type of "external to the sim" kind of thing. For example, you could run the system here off of tiny battery to start with, just like an aircraft. This battery could have a DPDT switch of it's own and an indicator of it's own. Then when sett to "on" the whole system is running on a battery...which WILL run down. You don't want that..... and your "aircraft" has to switch over to say...APU power...before the h battery runs down.

So you now use something like maybe a TRIPLE pole Dopuble Throw switch on the APU Gen switch mentioned above. That third pole will connect the 110 VAC (housde current) to the CB base station power supply..... which then sends 12 V DC to the same circuit that the battery is/was powering... and it acts very much like the real deal. (There are some details there that I did not mention..... in the effrot to be simple.)

Once your brain gets going on this stuff....... you'll always be tinkering in the pit. Wink

Hope this is helpful.

best,

...................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #27 - Aug 11^th, 2007 at 2:11pm

machineman9 Offline
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alot of long and short words there john, but still, very useful stuff to refer to if i get stuck or need ideas for the thing to work.

i would add a sixth lever, but if the landing gear is to be a button (i looked at your landing gear) i will make it so that at half way, a spring or something pushes into toggle switch... so then this toggle switch will be recognised to adjust the landing gear and make it go up/down depending on how it needs to go (hopefully down will send the gear down, though yesterday not even my keyboard could get the gear to go down)

so, im pretty much out of space on my MIDI connection (unless i added a second cable to it) but i think ive used the space for what i use most

again, thanks muchly, youve been a great help. im just checking the prices up again, and checking the final compatibilites of the hardware ill be using

cheers

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Reply #28 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 2:29am

gokhotit Offline
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I have just "finished" my console (is it ever "finished?).I have 4 mixture controls set up, along with an annunciator panel (that I just got working today Cheesy

), a light plate, and a bunch of lights and switches. I went on the more pricey side and use phidgets for all my interfacing (mainly because of FS2PHIDGET). I use the slider pots for my mixture, integrated my X52 throttle (and I just got the green light to upgrade to the pro version Cool

). I built everything into the goflight flight deck console. It looks really good , IMO. This is just FYI, and food for thought as a way to go.

I have found that sliders work a lot better than conventional pots due to teh ease of hook up. Can make a direct connection versus figuring out how to rotate something. Easier.

Check out my pictures here http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u185/gokhotit/

The Sim Console..."outside the box", within a box http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u185/gokhotit/th_sim.jpg

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Reply #29 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 8:12am

machineman9 Offline
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the console test fit pic looks good

i thought that X52 thing was a throttle in itself though

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