Simviation Forum - B-52 aircraft crash at Fairchild Air Force Base

Reply #15 - Jul 2^nd, 2007 at 3:27pm

Artemis08 Offline
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I Fly Sim!

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Hello. Resgistered here just to add my 2 cents. The Copilot of this flight was Lt. Col. Mark McGeehan, a close friend of my father's. He did everything he could to get this rouge pilot grounded, but was unsuccessful. He instead consistently penciled himself in as co-pilot to prevent any of the men in his squadron from flying with him. When he perished due to this man's nerve, his family suffered greatly. His sons watched it all happen. To commend this man for being a risk-taker is nonsense. He took 3 other men down with him.

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Reply #16 - Jul 2^nd, 2007 at 4:15pm

expat Offline
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Welcome to SimV. Don't take the views in this thread as a blanket example of what you would find here. We are a friendly bunch really.

Matt

PETA People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #17 - Jul 7^th, 2007 at 9:21am

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

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Artemis08 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2007 at 3:27pm:

The Copilot of this flight was Lt. Col. Mark McGeehan, a close friend of my father's. He did everything he could to get this rouge pilot grounded, but was unsuccessful. He instead consistently penciled himself in as co-pilot to prevent any of the men in his squadron from flying with him. When he perished due to this man's nerve, his family suffered greatly. His sons watched it all happen. To commend this man for being a risk-taker is nonsense. He took 3 other men down with him.

Very sad to hear indeed. The fact that (as you say) he [i]"consistently penciled himself in as co-pilot to prevent any of the men in his squadron from flying with him"[i/], again is testament to the fact that it appears his (Lt Col. McGeehan's) superiors did not give him the support he needed to be able to stand up to his "Boss" and say enough is enough. He should never have had to put himself in that position. Sadly it appears he had to, with tragic consequences. Hopefully the lessons were learnt, and 4 men (3 completely innocently) did not die in vain...

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Reply #18 - Jul 12^th, 2007 at 3:55am

Papa9571 Offline
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This will show you what kind of pilot he was and how he routinely violated regualtions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQa4PpIkOZU

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Reply #19 - Jul 13^th, 2007 at 2:31pm

beaky Offline
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Artemis08 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2007 at 3:27pm:

Hello. Resgistered here just to add my 2 cents. The Copilot of this flight was Lt. Col. Mark McGeehan, a close friend of my father's. He did everything he could to get this rouge pilot grounded, but was unsuccessful. He instead consistently penciled himself in as co-pilot to prevent any of the men in his squadron from flying with him. When he perished due to this man's nerve, his family suffered greatly. His sons watched it all happen. To commend this man for being a risk-taker is nonsense. He took 3 other men down with him.

'Nuff said.

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Reply #20 - Feb 29^th, 2008 at 11:08pm

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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Amazing how even an experienced Air Force pilot can forget some of the basic rules of aerodynamics, namely the overbanking effect, where once you bank an aircraft past a certain angle, it will continue banking and roll you on your back. Add in an aircraft with spoilerons for bank control and you get....

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #21 - Mar 1^st, 2008 at 5:27am

C Offline
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Earth

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DaveSims wrote on Feb 29^th, 2008 at 11:08pm:

Amazing how even an experienced Air Force pilot can forget some of the basic rules of aerodynamics,

I think forget is the wrong word. Maybe "show complete and utterly negligent disregard for..." would be more appropriate.

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Reply #22 - Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 6:42am

Papa9571 Offline
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Gotta get there on Time
Toledo, Ohio

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And even saying that you are being too kind.

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Reply #23 - Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:01pm

C Offline
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Earth

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Papa9571 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 6:42am:

And even saying that you are being too kind.

Quite.

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Reply #24 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 9:16am

beefhole Offline
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Philadelphia

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Artemis08 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2007 at 3:27pm:

Hello. Resgistered here just to add my 2 cents. The Copilot of this flight was Lt. Col. Mark McGeehan, a close friend of my father's. He did everything he could to get this rouge pilot grounded, but was unsuccessful. He instead consistently penciled himself in as co-pilot to prevent any of the men in his squadron from flying with him. When he perished due to this man's nerve, his family suffered greatly. His sons watched it all happen. To commend this man for being a risk-taker is nonsense. He took 3 other men down with him.

THAT is leadership, and his is a name I won't soon forget.

It is incredibly uninformed to say "He flew the BUFF like a viper, so he was a good pilot." Holland was both a bad pilot AND a bad airman (the latter being more important than the former).

The logical fallacy there has already been thoroughly vetted, but almost all posters have missed the single most important point--the BUFF is a CREWED aircraft. The Viper isn't. In the F-16, if you do something stupid, the ground should survive you just fine. In the B-52, as aircraft commander, you are responsible not only for the integrity of the aircraft but the lives of the people within it.

As a pilot, my single greatest fear isn't killing myself because I did something stupid. Oh well, Darwin at work. It's taking other people with me. And it should have been LtCol Holland's also.

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Reply #25 - May 20^th, 2008 at 10:16am

Jet Black1 Offline
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LOVE TO FLY!!!!!!!!!
Hutto,Texas

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Stormtropper wrote on Jun 26^th, 2007 at 11:07am:

Well, you can look at him either way...the safety hazard and an accident waiting to happen...or the dare devil pilot who took the Buff to the very edge (and beyond...his last flight) of its flight envelope.

I personally think he was one hell of a character and it was very unfortunate that he "messed up."

...records (and rules) are meant to be broken Wink

Let us all hope you never get to fly anything but flight sim.
Because if you think like that one day you to will end up just like him.

JetBlack1&&Greg&&Hutto,Texas

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