Simviation Forum - "Must Own" sims for sim fans

Reply #15 - May 16^th, 2007 at 8:59pm

Stormtropper Offline
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Björn wrote on May 16^th, 2007 at 6:08pm:

And there is no "Über-plane of WW2", all had their strengths and weaknesses.

Spitfire

*runs*

Grin

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Reply #16 - May 17^th, 2007 at 5:45am

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Well in my opinion (and probably only mine lol) you fly helicopters and planes in the BF series and the Raptor in L3.
Are these not sims?

L3 is the same as LOMAC, you take off, find the enemy, shoot them down and then land.

In that case, do we not class CFS as a sim?

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Reply #17 - May 17^th, 2007 at 7:49am

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If real air combat is as simple as just "Take off, find the enemy, shoot them down and then land" everyone would be a pilot...

...BF series are beneath arcade...the aircrafts don't even follow the laws of physics... Roll Eyes

And L3? If I remember correctly, you only need like three buttons on your joystick...imagine a cockpit with only 3 switches in it...

...and thats not even touching on the fact that the flight dynamics are very simple and your aircraft is virtually indestructble...

...and I wouldn't consider the stock CFS3 a sim...Microsoft, for some strange reason, didn't model in accelerated stalls, so it plays very arcade-y. But if you pop in a few of the 1% addons and Firepower, it gets pertty realistic.

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Reply #18 - May 17^th, 2007 at 8:12am

Fozzer Offline
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Stormtropper wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 7:49am:

If real air combat is as simple as just "Take off, find the enemy, shoot them down and then land" everyone would be a pilot...

...BF series are beneath arcade...the aircraft don't even follow the laws of physics... Roll Eyes

And L3? If I remember correctly, you only need like three buttons on your joystick...imagine a cockpit with only 3 switches in it...

...and that's not even touching on the fact that the flight dynamics are very simple and your aircraft is virtually indestructible...

...and I wouldn't consider the stock CFS3 a sim...Microsoft, for some strange reason, didn't model in accelerated stalls, so it plays very arcade-y. But if you pop in a few of the 1% addons and Firepower, it gets pretty realistic.

Stormtrooper...LOL...!

I consider any Flight Sim (or any other game) which allows invulnerability, invincibility, infinite weapons. infinite ammo, infinite lives, infinite time, infinite everything, etc, to be my sort of Game... Kiss

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Paul....death defying... Wink

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Reply #19 - May 17^th, 2007 at 8:51am

Chris_F Offline
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Fozzer wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 8:12am:

I consider any Flight Sim (or any other game) which allows invulnerability, invincibility, infinite weapons. infinite ammo, infinite lives, infinite time, infinite everything, etc, to be my sort of Game... Kiss

...!

Paul....death defying... Wink

...

...!

MSFS allows invincibility, infinite fuel, etc...

I guess that means you can easily convert it from "sim" to "game" and back.

A sim should be an attempted faithful recreation of reality. Some are better at this than others and as technology marches on things can get more and more real. The driving games I mentioned are good examples. GPL is about as real as it got back in the late 1990's and is still a pretty good sim, but it couldn't model aerodynamic downforce.

I think the division occurs when game designers intentionally break from reality to improve gameplay. LOMAC is less "real" than Falcon 4.0 in its systems modeling but I think that was done merely because it would have taken them too long to develop the game (with five or six planes modeled in depth versus Falcon's 1). I don't think LOMAC was dumbed down for gameplay.

The Enemy Engaged series however is different. It definately was dumbed down for gameplay. By "dumbed down" I mean the weapons effectiveness was heavily swayed in the player's favor. Sort of a helocopter version of "Rambo". You can take on the world solo in that game. Never played the battlefield series or the L3 game. I assume that's the same (weighted heavily in the player's favor).

For a good first person shooter sim try the freeware "America's Army". Best shootem' up sim today, unfortunately though there is no single player version and I really hate the a-holes who play online.

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Reply #20 - May 17^th, 2007 at 12:35pm

Chris_F Offline
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Many, many years ago (mid 90's?) there was a series of games built around the A10. The physics on that game were a trip. The aircraft essentially had no inertia. As soon as you dropped the throttle the airplane immediately slowed. You could slow the plane from 200 knots to zero in the WIDTH of a roadway without using the brakes! Talk about video game. But you still took off, shot up some tanks, and flew home just like in real sims.

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Reply #21 - May 17^th, 2007 at 2:00pm

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Björn wrote on May 16^th, 2007 at 6:08pm:

Brush up your knowledge about non-american aircraft of WW2...

And there is no "Über-plane of WW2", all had their strengths and weaknesses.

Heck, I don't have any real knowledge about American WW2 aircraft.

Also, allied aircraft at the end of the war had a clear upper hand over axis aircraft simply because the Allies (and US in particular) had a very developed industrial base compared to the Axis which, by that point had been bombed in to the ground. Quite simply the Germans and Japanese didn't have the ability to design and build aircraft as advanced as the end of war Allied aircraft. The Axis aircraft of this era weren't junk, but they were clearly losing the industrial and R&D race.

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Reply #22 - May 17^th, 2007 at 3:29pm

Björn Ex Member

Quote:

Really?

Really.

Quote:

Well in my opinion (and probably only mine lol) you fly helicopters and planes in the BF series and the Raptor in L3.
Are these not sims?

A game containing helos and jets is not necissarily a sim.

Quote:

You can take on the world solo in that game.

Ahem...those SAMs beg to differ...

Quote:

For a good first person shooter sim try the freeware "America's Army". Best shootem' up sim today, unfortunately though there is no single player version and I really hate the a-holes who play online.

The only realistic FPS I know are Operation Flashpoint // Armed Assault and Forgotten Hope, whereas the latter is "just" a mod for BF 1942...and real fun.

Quote:

Quite simply the Germans and Japanese didn't have the ability to design and build aircraft as advanced as the end of war Allied aircraft.

Yeah, sure. What about the Me-262, Ar-234, He-162, Fw-190D, Ta-152 and Bf-109K?

Quote:

The Axis aircraft of this era weren't junk, but they were clearly losing the industrial and R&D race.

The main problem was a lack of qualified pilots, good materials and fuel.

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Reply #23 - May 17^th, 2007 at 5:00pm

dcunning30 Offline
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Chris_F wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 12:35pm:

Many, many years ago (mid 90's?) there was a series of games built around the A10. The physics on that game were a trip. The aircraft essentially had no inertia. As soon as you dropped the throttle the airplane immediately slowed. You could slow the plane from 200 knots to zero in the WIDTH of a roadway without using the brakes! Talk about video game. But you still took off, shot up some tanks, and flew home just like in real sims.

I remember that game. It was by Dynamix, called A10 Tank Killer

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Reply #24 - May 17^th, 2007 at 6:04pm

Mushroom_Farmer Offline
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Fozzer wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 8:12am:

I consider any Flight Sim (or any other game) which allows invulnerability, invincibility, infinite weapons. infinite ammo, infinite lives, infinite time, infinite everything, etc, to be my sort of Game... Kiss

...!

Paul....death defying... Wink

...

...!

Then you would just adore Fighter Pilot..........teehee

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Reply #25 - May 17^th, 2007 at 6:51pm

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Björn wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 3:29pm:

The only realistic FPS I know are Operation Flashpoint // Armed Assault and Forgotten Hope, whereas the latter is "just" a mod for BF 1942...and real fun..

Give America's Army a try. It's a free download. It's big though. Just set it up to DL overnight or something. Definately the most realistic FPS I've ever played, in fact I'm hard pressed to think how it could be made more realistic. Another good one is the old Rainbow Six series. A little arcade-y but definately more on the "sim" side of things.

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Reply #26 - May 18^th, 2007 at 8:45am

Björn Ex Member

Chris_F wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 6:51pm:

Give America's Army a try. It's a free download.

Nah. If I want modern-world action, I'll dig out Joint Operations.

Quote:

It's big though. Just set it up to DL overnight or something.

One Gigabyte? No problem.

Quote:

Definately the most realistic FPS I've ever played, in fact I'm hard pressed to think how it could be made more realistic.

Forgotten Hope.
One of the few "one hit, one kill" games I know.

Quote:

Another good one is the old Rainbow Six series. A little arcade-y but definately more on the "sim" side of things.

No, not really, since you can't see your weapon and you get the impression that you're hovering through levels instead of walking.

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Reply #27 - May 18^th, 2007 at 10:01am

ZeroTime Ex Member

Lock On but only get it if you're prepared to get Flaming Cliffs (1.12) which comes witth StarForce. Sad

Lock On 1.02 is, atleast for me, riddled with bugs.

Not long ago I had an awsome game of it though. I was about 100 feet high in an f-15 zooming towards an A-50 (Russian AWACS) and I had to shoot it down. Boom launched missle. A-50 is going down! Damn SIX crappy migs. OoOoOoO TWS feature it awsome, I shot 3 missles in 2 seconds blowing them all up.

Then my wingman died then I murdered the other migs including one with the M61. After that I was out of ammo and a Su-27 had just taken off so I hit the burners climbed to 40 000 feet and accelerated away reaching Mach 2. Cheesy

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Reply #28 - May 18^th, 2007 at 10:44am

Chris_F Offline
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Björn wrote on May 18^th, 2007 at 8:45am:

Forgotten Hope.
One of the few "one hit, one kill" games I know.

Don't even want to try the download? I'm not a huge FPS fan but the realism is impressive. Bullets pass through some walls, not others, they come out the other side with altered trajectories and velocities. You can skip bullets off of hard surfaces if you get the angle right but they end up a little eratic and definately less powerful. If you get hit you usually die but sometime (depending on the location of the injury and the trajectory) you'll just be injured with reduced mobility or such, and sometimes if you don't get medical help you'll bleed out some time after the initial injury. The environment is also rather realistic with 3D sound (you often use sound more than vision to find the enemy), lots of reactive environments (you sometimes leave footprints), etc. Weapons modeling is spot on. Ranges, accuracy, blast radius for grenades, etc. I've never played Forgotten Hope so I can't compare, but AA is very accurate.

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Reply #29 - May 18^th, 2007 at 12:38pm

Björn Ex Member

Now that sounds quite well.

The only thing bugging me is the stuff wrapped around it..."Our heroes"..."Sign up now"....etc...

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