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What would you do? (Read 741 times)
Apr 3rd, 2007 at 8:42am

EGNX   Offline
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http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=4619966

Personally I would.
For me to sacrifice my life to save 100's of others wouldn't be a problem. Although I would have to think long and hard about becoming a kamakazi pilot to just kill a couple of Taliban or al-Qaeda commanders...

What would you do?
 
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Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 8:50am

Hagar   Offline
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In the Western world these things are done on the spur of the moment in the heat of battle. They call it heroism & people get the VC for it. If you have to think about it you wouldn't do it.

I would like to hear what Charlie thinks about this. If it's been correctly reported (which I doubt) the Air Vice-Marshal is very misguided*. IMHO

*Not the words I used when I first heard about this. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 9:01am

EGNX   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 8:50am:
If you have to think about it you wouldn't do it.


Your right... what would be the outcome of me sacrificing my life to kill a Taliban or al-Qaeda commander? Its not like i'll be directly saving anyones life... and it may even make the situation worse.
 
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Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 9:05am
Tweek   Ex Member

 
No, I wouldn't. It's not a case of whether I'd be saving other lives by taking my own, it's the fact that such actions shouldn't be necessary these days. If I'm sitting in an unarmed jet, and I've spotted the enemy, I should be able to call in reinforcements to take them out for me.

Despite it being The Sun, this is probably a better article, as it shows the point of view of the servicemen/women:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007150271,00.html

Quote:
Another said: “Imagine, as you are floating skyward towards the pearly gates having parked your jet in the desert at 500 knots, that intelligence had it wrong and that the bloke driving the car was actually a plumber taking his children to school?

“Imagine trying to fly your fast pointy thing at an evading car. The bloke driving only has to swerve at the last minute and it’s Goodnight Vienna, mission failed.”

A third said: “The politicians tell us that we have the right troops and equipment for the job. Surely such tactics, not to mention the loss of expensive equipment and manpower, are not required.”
 
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Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 9:51am

EGNX   Offline
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Quote:
No, I wouldn't. It's not a case of whether I'd be saving other lives by taking my own, it's the fact that such actions shouldn't be necessary these days. If I'm sitting in an unarmed jet, and I've spotted the enemy, I should be able to call in reinforcements to take them out for me.


What if.... you where the only airborne fast jet within 40 miles of a fully loaded 747 that has just taken off from Gatwick and has be hijacked by terrorists with the intention to crash it in the centre of London at rush hour. It is estimated that the 747 will be at its target within 10 minutes. Obiously you are unarmed as you are on a routine training flight. No other fast jet aircraft will be able to reach the 747 before it hits its target. So it is up to you, to forcefully use your aircraft to bring down the 747 as quickly as you can and with the least loss of life possible...

Would you do it? Or just fly home for tea and biscuits...?
 
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Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:06am

Hagar   Offline
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EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 9:51am:
What if.... you where the only airborne fast jet within 40 miles of a fully loaded 747 that has just taken off from Gatwick and has be hijacked by terrorists with the intention to crash it in the centre of London at rush hour. It is estimated that the 747 will be at its target within 10 minutes. Obiously you are unarmed as you are on a routine training flight. No other fast jet aircraft will be able to reach the 747 before it hits its target. So it is up to you, to forcefully use your aircraft to bring down the 747 as quickly as you can and with the least loss of life possible...

Would you do it? Or just fly home for tea and biscuits...?

I think this is one of the situations the Air Vice-Marshal was talking about. It's purely hypothetical & never likely to happen. My previous comments still stand. He would only do this as a last resort but with no other options my feeling is that a RAF fighter pilot would aim his aircraft at the airliner & bang out, hoping to get out in time. The very idea of suicide pilots goes completely against Western culture which is surely what they're fighting to protect. I still think (hope) that this is typical sensational journalism & the whole thing has been taken out of context.
 
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Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:15am

EGNX   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:06am:
The very idea of suicide pilots goes completely against Western culture.


Of course... but I think the Air Vice-Marshal has be been put out of context slightly by the media saying he wants pilots to go on 'suicide' missions, rather than in situations like the one I have hypothesized, he wants the public and RAF pilots to be aware and  even prepared do the right thing, and take there own lives to save others.
 
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Reply #7 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:18am

Hagar   Offline
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EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:15am:
Hagar wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:06am:
The very idea of suicide pilots goes completely against Western culture.


Of course... but I think the Air Vice-Marshal has be been put out of context slightly by the media saying he wants pilots to go on 'suicide' missions, rather than in situations like the one I have hypothesized, he wants the public and RAF pilots to be aware and  even prepared do the right thing, and take there own lives to save others.

In that case I would expect it to go without saying. Like all our armed services, the RAF has a fine tradition of bravery & sacrifice which is proudly carried on through the generations. To raise the subject in this manner is an insult to the crews serving under him.
 
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Reply #8 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 11:38am

expat   Offline
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There is always another option if the situation was so grave...................point and pull.
And would I.....no......I am of far greater value to my children alive than dead. So daddy died a hero. Ask them what they really want,  a father or a VC or such like. So it is a little selfish you may say. That is the world today and it will not change so get use to it, it will just get worse. All the touchy feely you want will make no difference.

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Reply #9 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 12:43pm
Tweek   Ex Member

 
EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 9:51am:
What if.... you where the only airborne fast jet within 40 miles of a fully loaded 747 that has just taken off from Gatwick and has be hijacked by terrorists with the intention to crash it in the centre of London at rush hour. It is estimated that the 747 will be at its target within 10 minutes. Obiously you are unarmed as you are on a routine training flight. No other fast jet aircraft will be able to reach the 747 before it hits its target. So it is up to you, to forcefully use your aircraft to bring down the 747 as quickly as you can and with the least loss of life possible...

Would you do it? Or just fly home for tea and biscuits...?


I'm sure you'd be able to do sufficient damage to the airliner, without having to kill yourself. If you do significant damage to your own aircraft, then you can just eject. I'd certainly try to damage the target with my own aircraft, but I wouldn't go flying in at it nose first.

You know what I'm going to try on Lock On, now... Tongue
 
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Reply #10 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:04pm

EGNX   Offline
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Quote:
I'm sure you'd be able to do sufficient damage to the airliner, without having to kill yourself. If you do significant damage to your own aircraft, then you can just eject. I'd certainly try to damage the target with my own aircraft, but I wouldn't go flying in at it nose first.

You know what I'm going to try on Lock On, now... Tongue


But obviously you would be willing to lay down your life if you had to?
 
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Reply #11 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:23pm
Tweek   Ex Member

 
EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:04pm:
Quote:
I'm sure you'd be able to do sufficient damage to the airliner, without having to kill yourself. If you do significant damage to your own aircraft, then you can just eject. I'd certainly try to damage the target with my own aircraft, but I wouldn't go flying in at it nose first.

You know what I'm going to try on Lock On, now... Tongue


But obviously you would be willing to lay down your life if you had to?


It really depends on the specific situation.
 
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Reply #12 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:33pm

EGNX   Offline
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Quote:
It really depends on the specific situation.


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EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:04pm:
if you had to?

 
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Reply #13 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:51pm
Tweek   Ex Member

 
EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:33pm:
Quote:
It really depends on the specific situation.


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EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:04pm:
if you had to?



Stop telling me to kill myself. Grin
 
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Reply #14 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:56pm

expat   Offline
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EGNX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2007 at 1:04pm:
Quote:
I'm sure you'd be able to do sufficient damage to the airliner, without having to kill yourself. If you do significant damage to your own aircraft, then you can just eject. I'd certainly try to damage the target with my own aircraft, but I wouldn't go flying in at it nose first.

You know what I'm going to try on Lock On, now... Tongue


But obviously you would be willing to lay down your life if you had to?



Without being patronising, to your age of 16 you have not seen that much in this world. Living a life so far of Hollywood and computer games, once you have seen a few dead bodies, been sent to hot sandy places or even a few places not to far from your present location, you will learn that anyone who has experienced such things has a great urge to cling to life for as long as possible.
Would you be willing to lay down your life? That is a sentence devised to lessen the blow of informing a relative that you are DEAD, no more, splashed to the 4 winds, end EX. "Where's daddy", "gone to a better place my child". What is better than coming home to your child?
If I had to lay down my life, If I had to, there is always choice.  There is no obviously about it.

Matt
 
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