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ok I dont understand nascar (Read 1550 times)
Feb 15th, 2007 at 6:25am

Craig.   Offline
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AloxWup2JhAvQZsfwvHMTTjov7YF?slug=ap-na...

So drivers/crew cheat, NASCAR does the right thing by suspending and docking points, and all the pitlane gets upset? What kind of message does this send to people when the drivers publicly come out against penalties for cheating?
I can sort of understand if a piece fails inspection because of a mistake, but finding what amounts to jet fuel to give a clear advantage should get a team thrown out of the competition all together.
 
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Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 7:12am

ozzy72   Offline
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Your problem is this Craig, you've got to accept that you;
1) are not a redneck.
2) don't have the IQ of a pot plant.
3) don't like eating hotdogs that have never seen a pig.
4) enjoying drinking cat pee and claiming it is beer.

Hope this helps Wink Grin
 
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Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 7:18am

Craig.   Offline
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things are suddenly much clearer Grin
 
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Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 9:48am

expat   Offline
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Craig. wrote on Feb 15th, 2007 at 7:18am:
things are suddenly much clearer Grin


Much like the beer in question.


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Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 3:22pm

TSC.   Offline
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Didn't Sunday's Top Gear teach you anything Craig??

'Nascar sucks'

Grin

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Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 5:07pm
Souichiro   Ex Member

 
TSC. wrote on Feb 15th, 2007 at 3:22pm:
Didn't Sunday's Top Gear teach you anything Craig??

'Nascar sucks'

Grin

TSC.



Hehe I was also thinking that when I read this  Cheesy
 
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Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 5:13pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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Wellllllllllllllll, when you choose to run what basically amounts to a spec series, which relies on talent and not performance and you have little talent, I guess the next step is to cheat.
Now with that said, what I don't understand is how the officials can O.K. the the car in tech before the run and it fails after the run. It seems the whole NASCAR inspection process needs an overhaul. Why not have it that after going through tech you cannot touch the car except for weather related adjustments under the scrutiny of an official.
In Evernham's case, he did excatly what the officials told him to do. Even though his duct tape patch didn't hold I feel that was a bad judgement on NASCAR's part since they gave instructions for the fix.
Why not ban the whole team, including driver, from competing when found cheating. That would probably send a stronger message.
You should know I don't watch NASCAR.
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 8:45pm

Chris_F   Offline
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I don't know how much of that is an actual consensus on pit lane that the penalties were unfair and how much of that was just creative journalism.  Certainly not ALL fans of the sport want to see cheating.

I know this is a forum that dislikes all things American, and I certainly have never been a NASCAR fan (just can't seem to keep my eyes open watching lap after lap of roundy-round waiting for a crash) but it is apparent that NASCAR is a very high level of racing and its level of professionalism is on the increase.  They even have some ex-F1 tallent and a foreign name plate on the grid now.

So, before we start slinging the redneck comments perhaps we should watch a few rounds of FIA Rallycross...
 
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Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 8:47pm

Chris_F   Offline
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Mushroom_Farmer wrote on Feb 15th, 2007 at 5:13pm:
  Now with that said, what I don't understand is how the officials can O.K. the the car in tech before the run and it fails after the run. It seems the whole NASCAR inspection process needs an overhaul. Why not have it that after going through tech you cannot touch the car except for weather related adjustments under the scrutiny of an official.   


It's conceiveable that a car which passes tech before a race or qualifying run would not pass tech after.  For example, (and I believe this has been done) a bolt could be installed to keep ride height up to pass tech which is designed to fail on the track lowering the car to an illegal level.  Or any other iteration of the same.
 
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Reply #9 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 3:09am

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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Quote:
It's conceiveable that a car which passes tech before a race or qualifying run would not pass tech after.  For example, (and I believe this has been done) a bolt could be installed to keep ride height up to pass tech which is designed to fail on the track lowering the car to an illegal level.  Or any other iteration of the same.


Well that's true. It's also the kind of thing the tech people are supposed to be looking for. Maybe if bolts for certain parts were a specific grade that might help. In the case you presented, I would say it was a part failure and disallow the time. I see no reason for fines and suspensions. In Evernhams case there were apparantly some holes in the fender well, which is something not mentioned anywhere in the rules. NASCAR told him to tape over the holes, which he did. During qualifying the tape fell off, as hard as that is to believe.  Roll Eyes So NASCAR fines Evernham, IMO, for doing what he was told to do by the officials. This brings up another point. If you are smarter than the rules makers and find something not addressed in the rules that gives a little edge, is that cheating or innovation? It seems F-1's opinion is "The boy is smart, we'll allow it for now".
I remember Bobby Allison's rear bumper falling off in the 1982 Daytona race. It was deemed improperly positioned before the race and the crew supposedly did a rush job relocating it. Without a rear bumper Allison's car had less drag and ran away from the field, but no fines or suspensions were levied. Gary Nelson, who is now one of the heads of NASCAR's inspection crew, was Allison's crew chief.
 
...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
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Reply #10 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 9:22am

Chris_F   Offline
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In the case of the bolt I believe the officials saw that it was partially cut through with a die grinder or saw before it was installed.  So there was definate intent for that part to fail.  Still, I don't know if the car was disqualified or penalized in any way, but it did cause them to institute a post race/qualifying inspecion.

Mushroom_Farmer wrote on Feb 16th, 2007 at 3:09am:
If you are smarter than the rules makers and find something not addressed in the rules that gives a little edge, is that cheating or innovation? It seems F-1's opinion is "The boy is smart, we'll allow it for now".


I guess that fits with the Renault mass damper thing, the Michelin widening tire thing, the only one I don't see fitting that is the Honda mini-gas tank thing.  Certain interpretations of the rules would have shown Honda to be compliant but IIRC they were fined and penalized heavily for something that may never even have been in violation of the rules (minimum weight).  It was only POTENTIALLY in violation.  So F1 has its share of "debateable" penalties.
 
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Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 3:37pm

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s far as F1 is concerned.
technology develops so quick in the sport, and the rules have staid almost the same now for the past 10 years, with a few update every now and again.
The big one now being ferrari and other teams rear wheel hubs. For all intents they are illeagal, but for some reason they've found a way of allowing it. Same for why as mentioned by chris, renault got away with their mass damper system.
I have to disagree about hondas penalty though.
The rules state a car and driver MUST weight 600kg combine empty car weight. hondas car didn't weight it empty period. It doesn't matter about some small gas tank, that counts as part of the car having to be empty.
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 3:53pm

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I kind of miss the Indy 500 back in the old days(pre-1980). One saw all sorts of strange and original machines entered.

In F-1, I thought they always had a standardized fuel tank size rule. I learned something today.  Shocked
 
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Reply #13 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 8:11pm

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NASCAR is on my list of things That Would Be Way More Fun to Do Than to Watch...

Like golf.

Grin
 
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Reply #14 - Feb 17th, 2007 at 6:14pm

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Some of the above sounds like the 'first year after end of group B termination' Lancia Delta HF... met the horsepower restriction on the dyno... but went way over it when driving
 
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Reply #15 - Feb 18th, 2007 at 2:35am

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Group B was just mad, pure and simple Ivan. I recall the early Quattros having the inboard headlights removed and placed with thin plastic flaps that would blow "open" once moving to aid cooling. Illegal. Docking of points etc etc.
I still maintain the Group B cars were among some of the best cars EVER Cool
 
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Reply #16 - Feb 18th, 2007 at 6:05am
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I don't know how people find cars zooming in circles fun to watch and interesting....  Grin
 
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Reply #17 - Feb 18th, 2007 at 8:32am

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
I don't know how people find cars zooming in circles fun to watch and interesting....  Grin

i dunno, but I love the IRL. The faster more technological form of nascar Grin
 
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Reply #18 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 9:55pm

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I only watch for the crashes myself.  I found the end of this years Daytona 500 interesting, as the one car crossed the finish line on its roof, backwards, and on fire.  That guy had style   Cheesy
 
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Reply #19 - Mar 7th, 2007 at 8:35pm

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Sadly, even the crashes don't entertain me enough to watch NASCAR any more...

I guess I'll stick to F1 where the guys have realized that the wheel turns to the right too. Tongue
 
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Reply #20 - Mar 7th, 2007 at 10:41pm
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I'm going to stick watching Le Mans 24 hours Live for the WHOLE race. Tongue I hope the Peurgot 908 is good competition to the Audi...
 
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Reply #21 - Mar 8th, 2007 at 10:19pm

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Ovals frankly bore me and I've never really watched NASCAR until this season (go Montoya!) but I found the California Speedway race interesting.  Those cars looked like they were sliding and fighting for grip on every corner.  Even F1 has its share of boring corners every lap.  Sure those oval corners all look the same, but when they're sliding the car around them I guess I can overlook that minor point.  After all, how long does it REALLY take an F1 driver to learn a modern F1 course?  Five laps?  Three?  After that the corners might as well all be left handers since there isn't much difference between turning left and turning right.

One thing I do dislike about ovals though: no real braking or shifting.  It just ain't racing without braking and shifting.
 
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Reply #22 - Mar 9th, 2007 at 10:29pm

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NASCAR was fun about 35 years ago, when it was REALLY stock car racing. The cars that raced on Sunday  didn't just resemble the street versions; they really were the street versions with extensive roll-cages and safetty equipment. Now, they're all the same chassis (pretty much) and the bodies just resemble the real thing.

NASCAR should go back to that. But it's funny to suggest what they should do, when they're so successful. And trust me.. the cash flow and fan dollars the advertisers go after, aren't poor, drunk rednecks. NASCAR is wildy popular to the entire cross-section of America.. ditch-diggers to doctors and everyone in between.

I appreciate F1 for the technology and driver skill, but I quit watching it right after the Senna/Prost rivalry faded. The cars would quickly fall into a running order that matched the team's budget and there was little passing at all. I don't know if that's changed, because the coverage over here hasn't gotten any better either.

I miss the old IMSA series of the 1980s... when Nissan, Toyota, Porsche and Jaguar used to mix it up with some real, competitve racing, on real race tracks.
 
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Reply #23 - Mar 24th, 2007 at 11:39pm

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All NASCAR is:   Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn ,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn,Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn, Straight, Left turn. What's to understand.
 
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