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What tape (Read 688 times)
Reply #15 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 3:02am

Ivan   Offline
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Probably tried to keep this away from the public to prevent:
1: huge US embarassment
2: US paying damages to the survivors of the attack because they will almost certainly get lung cancer or worse

But the area controller was in error also... only AFTER they ID-ed and shot the vehicle he discovers that in said position there could be friendly vehicles.
 

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Reply #16 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 3:20am

expat   Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 2:20am:
Leak? The MOD and DOD are like sieves Grin Grin Grin


Sieves.............more like a weir at times  Grin

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Reply #17 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 5:13am

Craig.   Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 2:20am:
Leak? The MOD and DOD are like sieves Grin Grin Grin

I thought it was an open door policy. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #18 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:22am

C   Offline
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Accidental or not, the only thing I will add, having read the transcript, is one has to wonder what degree of negligence was shown in the continual ingorance of the orange coalition ID marking, which are referenced several times. Not as bad as the F-16/Canadian incident in A-ghan, but still interesting again to note that they appear to have been ANG A-10s.
 
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Reply #19 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:31am

Craig.   Offline
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my only question about the orange markings, with it being widely known anyway, isn't it easy for the enemy to just put it on their armor and vehicles? Or is there a specific setup thats not widely known?
 
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Reply #20 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:44am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Craig. wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:31am:
my only question about the orange markings, with it being widely known anyway, isn't it easy for the enemy to just put it on their armor and vehicles? Or is there a specific setup thats not widely known?

I should think when the enemy finds out that they're using orange markings, and starts using them themselves, then you stop using them and thank the enemy for making themselves painfully obvious to air attack.
 

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Reply #21 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:37am

Chris_F   Offline
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Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:44am:
Craig. wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 10:31am:
my only question about the orange markings, with it being widely known anyway, isn't it easy for the enemy to just put it on their armor and vehicles? Or is there a specific setup thats not widely known?

I should think when the enemy finds out that they're using orange markings, and starts using them themselves, then you stop using them and thank the enemy for making themselves painfully obvious to air attack.


I think there would be a couple of hours or days in between there where the enemy could take advantage of the confusion.  I've not read the transcript but put yourself in a theoretical scenario in the pilot's shoes.  You're called in to fly CAS for friendlies under fire.  You come on scene and ID your target.  You note the markings.  You radio down and get confirmation that it is your target.

Why wouldn't you fire?  Not firing could mean the enemy can engage friendlies.
 
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Reply #22 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:46am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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They wern't told that that was their target.In fact, the first words in the video would have you believe that they'd already attacked the vehicles they were called in to deal with. They saw the orange identification markings, asked several times whether there were any friendlies in the area, then started to presume that what they could see were orange rocket launchers and then attacked without permission from the forward air controller.
 

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Reply #23 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:51am

Craig.   Offline
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thing is chris, these wern't actually their targets.
From what I can tell they were returning from a mission and happend to see these guys. They wanted to destroy them before RTB. Sadly the problems them started because the guys handling battlefield watch or whatever you call it, told the pilots there were no friendlies in the area, either through incorrect position communications or poor communication between armies.
Personally this is why I am not a big fan of non pre-mission target engagement, accidents like this happen.
I cant really fault the pilots, they went through what appeared to be proper procedure, and were given assurances there were no friendlies in the area. After this you've really only got seconds to react.
 
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Reply #24 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 12:25pm

Hagar   Offline
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The whole point of this is not to apportion blame. The official enquiries will decide that. The question is; why was the existence of this evidence denied for so long & why was it ever classified as Top-Secret? This is not uncommon & can only be regarded as a deliberate cover-up by someone in authority for whatever motives.
 

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Reply #25 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 1:26pm

Chris_F   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Feb 7th, 2007 at 12:25pm:
The whole point of this is not to apportion blame. The official enquiries will decide that. The question is; why was the existence of this evidence denied for so long & why was it ever classified as Top-Secret? This is not uncommon & can only be regarded as a deliberate cover-up by someone in authority for whatever motives.

I've seen all sorts of burocratic reasons for something like this that have nothing to do with cover-up.  Perhaps the earlier parts of the mission were classified and therefore the entire tape had to be considered classified?  Perhaps one month prior a mission the pilot flew was classified therefore the tape machine was "contaminated" and every tape needed to be considered classified.  Heck, if I take a music CD in to the area where I work that CD automatically is considered contaminated and needs to be shredded.  There are lots of silly rules regarding classification any one of which could kick off some burocratic nightmare that results in something like this.
 
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Reply #26 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 1:37pm

C   Offline
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Ignoring the rest of the tape, I think the mindset of the aircrew may have been revealed by the wingman on the tape - bearing in mind he was the one prompting the other aircraft about the ID markings several times on the tape.

"We're going to jail for this"

It will be interesting to see the entire tape in it's entirity in real time. The other issue the papers we're picking up on may have been either one of pilots of the FAC having a north/south faff.
 
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Reply #27 - Feb 9th, 2007 at 3:57pm
Heathaze   Ex Member

 
"We're in jail dude". Well, if they go then make sure the controller(s) who advised them there were no friendlies in the area joins them...
 
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