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What tape (Read 687 times)
Feb 6th, 2007 at 8:23am

expat   Offline
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Whist friendly fire has happened since the dawn of time and as much as we reply on technology unfortunately it will never be completely eliminated,
once politicians and civil servants from any country get involved it just shows they are just natural born lairs. I bet a pound to a pinch of pig sh#t that some civilian looking at saving face and money decided that this tape was classified, after all the military just does as it is told.

"Can we see the cockpit tape of the friendly fire incident in which a troop was killed. It is required for the coroner to make a full report."

"No tape exists of that incident"

"So you are telling me that the tape now in the public domain  does not exist?"

Having now seen the tape and read the transcription I truly cannot see why it was for 4 years denied and whilst it appears to be an honest mistake (there was not gung ho flying or talk from the pilots), they spent time getting conformation of targets and I have no wish to see a highly trained pilot be grounded or worse, it does make one wonder the motive behind the lies and deceit.  I would bet that the person who leaked is more likely to be spit roasted than anyone else involved from start to finish.

Matt

 

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Reply #1 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 8:25am

Craig.   Offline
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I agree there is no reason the tape shouldn't have been released.
Unfortunatly this has huge reprocussions for the US and UK relations. the MOD and DOD are not exactly on the best of terms as it is. Now I think we can all but kiss good bye to info sharing and thus probably the end fo projects such as the JSF.
 
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Reply #2 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 8:27am

expat   Offline
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Craig. wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 8:25am:
I agree there is no reason the tape shouldn't have been released.
Unfortunatly this has uge reprocussions for the US and UK relations. the MOD and DOD are not exactly on the best of terms as it is. Now I think we can all but kiss good bye to info sharing and thus probably the end fo projects such as the JSF.



I am not sure that it would go as far as something as JSF, but I bet it could get to be very,very petty at times.

Matt

PS you have inadvertently answered a question for me. It is possible for a post to be read whist it is being modified Smiley
 

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Reply #3 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 9:39am

ozzy72   Offline
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Alas this is a case of a genuine mistake. The nine lads killed by the A-10s in '91 in the Gulf was a different matter and the pilots were never called forward or to my knowledge faced a court martial. Viewing the transcripts of that incident they WERE gung-ho (and possibly brain dead). This incident has coloured things ever since... Mind you I still think the best is the RAFs first interception battle of WWII. Spits versus Hurris as I recall Roll Eyes
This latest one seems to be a genuine cock-up! Alas as long as we go to war these things will happen. Sometimes it is people who are at fault, other times it is just sheer bad luck Cry
So shoot a pencil neck, tabloid journalist or politician today to help make the world a safer and happier place. Meanwhile I'm going back to making my DIY grenades ready for 3C tomorrow to help make the world a safer and happier place Smiley
I get the feeling that this is a case of a cover-up because the USAF have been in so many incidents in both Iraq and Afghanistan! Of course they have a higher number of incidents.... they've got more planes!!! If people stuck to the facts things sure would be a lot easier.
 

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Reply #4 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 2:39pm

Isak922   Offline
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Someone mind telling me what happened?  Shocked Completely lost here
 

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Reply #5 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:01pm

Chris_F   Offline
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Isak922 wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 2:39pm:
Someone mind telling me what happened?  Shocked Completely lost here

In 2003 an A10 had a friendly fire incident on a UK tank.  The cockpit tape of the encounter was only recently released.  Prior to that its existance was denied (IIRC).

Why?  My opinion: simple mistakes and burocracy.  Sure it COULD be a cover-up, but that would imply that those doing the covering are competent enough to cover-up something for this long.  In my experience the government (military) simply isn't capable.
 
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Reply #6 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:18pm
Heathaze   Ex Member

 
Chris_F wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:01pm:
Isak922 wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 2:39pm:
Someone mind telling me what happened?  Shocked Completely lost here

In 2003 an A10 had a friendly fire incident on a UK tank.  The cockpit tape of the encounter was only recently released.  Prior to that its existance was denied (IIRC).


You ommited to mention that one soldier was killed and another wounded in the incident...
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:26pm

Hagar   Offline
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Chris_F wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:01pm:
Isak922 wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 2:39pm:
Someone mind telling me what happened?  Shocked Completely lost here

In 2003 an A10 had a friendly fire incident on a UK tank.  The cockpit tape of the encounter was only recently released.  Prior to that its existance was denied (IIRC).

Why?  My opinion: simple mistakes and burocracy.  Sure it COULD be a cover-up, but that would imply that those doing the covering are competent enough to cover-up something for this long.  In my experience the government (military) simply isn't capable.

Probably not widely covered in the US but it's front page news here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6334769.stm

It was actually a column of vehicles, all clearly carrying bright orange ident strips. There is no doubt that someone in authority has been trying to cover this up for years. At first the existence of the tape was denied. Then it suddenly surfaced at the inquest last week. I don't know where it came from but the coroner watched it. He was not allowed to show it to anyone else as it was still "classified" so he adjourned the inquest until it could be released. Somehow the Sun, one of the the tabloid newspapers, got hold of it. It's also widely available on the Internet but if you want to see it you will have to search for it yourselves. The tape is now in the public domain so there's no point in trying to hide it any longer.
 

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Reply #8 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:47pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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SAD

these jokers need to release the F-ing tape, provide a proper punishment to those responsible for the screw up and lets all try to move on the best we can.

what is so hard about that for these government types?
 
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Reply #9 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 4:52pm
Heathaze   Ex Member

 
Quote:
SAD

these jokers need to release the F-ing tape, provide a proper punishment to those responsible for the screw up and lets all try to move on the best we can.

what is so hard about that for these government types?


It's too late now it already HAS been released! Just not through 'official' channels. If anyone was going to be punished they would have been several years ago, when the incident happened...
 
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Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 5:11pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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I think that leaked is more the correct term instead of released.
 

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Reply #11 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 6:14pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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yes - i know Sad it has been leaked but the proper channels is what im speaking about.

Sometimes governments are like big cats - frantically covering up its own crap, when they need to just do what is right in the first place and settle it properly.
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 6th, 2007 at 8:26pm
Heathaze   Ex Member

 
Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 6th, 2007 at 5:11pm:
I think that leaked is more the correct term instead of released.

Sorry, got the words mixed up.
 
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Reply #13 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 1:55am

expat   Offline
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Quote:
SAD

these jokers need to release the F-ing tape, provide a proper punishment to those responsible for the screw up and lets all try to move on the best we can.

what is so hard about that for these government types?



If you are referring to punishing the pilots or forward ground controllersin this instance I have to disagree. From time to time accidents happen, but in this day and age they are not allowed any more. It does not matter if you cut your finger opening a letter too strafe the wrong people, it is always someone else's fault and they have to pay. Add into this the stress of war and all the factors that go with it, for example lack of sleep (for every hour in the air, how long where those pilots up before with Int briefings etc) the forward ground controller who is directing fire possibly under fire and is trying to keep his own head down. All these things come together and produce a tragic accident. I have already said, I have seen the video and read the full transcript. The pilots spent quite some time trying to identify the target before they attacked. Unfortunately this particular incident has been tarnished by the pilots who got it wrong in the 91 Gulf war (there have been so many we have to identify them with a year now Tongue) and wanted to bomb some Ragheads or Camel Jockies  (I use these words to emphasis the gung ho attitude of that particular incident only, before you start I am married to a foreign national Wink) To punish the guys in this particular incident would serve no purpose except to add more stress on the next bunch of guys on the front line maybe causing the enemy to be able to strike back. It was an accident, blue on blue is a fact of war life. It is just a question of how long before it happens again. In the past couple of years we have had British troop blue on blue and American soldiers shooting at each other. That does not seem to make the news much and these guys are a matter of meters away from each other. A couple of fighter pilots at X thousand feet and we expect them to have bionic eyes..............Just one persons opinion.

Matt
 

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Reply #14 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 2:20am

ozzy72   Offline
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Leak? The MOD and DOD are like sieves Grin Grin Grin
 

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