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Sounds like a blond bombshell to an engine man 

Matt

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Thankfully I don't think Jaguar was planning to go with a 47L desiel turbo V12 with the XJ220.  After you've heard a screaming V12 at the track (often under a scarlet red hood wearing a certain chrome prancing horse logo) you'll understand the appeal.  That Enzo that started this thread had a sweaty, ugly, heavy, noisy V12 when it started life and not many people would say that it's the wrong engine for the car.  Granted I'm sure there are plenty of Toyota Camrys with the much sexier V6 installed under their bread-and-butter hoods.

Chris_F wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 11:11am:

Having met Steve Saleen personally (he is family friend; and through him Brian Walsh), I have been around both the Michigan and Irvine facilities. After seeing both plats, I can assure you that the S7 is NOT a kit car in any way, shape, or form. In fact, Saleen's company is specifically designated as an OEM by the AIAG (and is universally accepted as such). They design, build, and manufacture nearly all parts in either their new plant in Troy (mostly Mustang production and prototype construction), or their older facility in California. Even the Mustangs (although sold in normal Ford dealerships) are built in one of the two Saleen factorys. The quality difference between the Ford product and the Saleen product is very noticeable. . .

. . .And the S7 is something else entirely. No part of it is a kit . . . it is only sold as a complete car (at a very high price) through either Saleen directly or through a couple of big name ford dealers (Galpin comes to mind). The engine is built and designed (from scratch) in-house (Irvine). Even the old naturally aspirated version differences from the units used S7R race car (which I believe uses an outsourced design). The space-frame is also designed and built in California. In fact, I can't think of anything on the car [S7 or S7TT] that is outsourced to another company (beyond the usual items that all OEM's out source [brake systems, transmission, audio]). The interior is well thought out, and the paintjob is of higher quality than anything that I have seen on a car from a Ford factory (except for the Ford GT. . .but that is probably because it is assembled and painted at Saleen's Michigan plant for Ford/SVT).

Granted, the fit and finish on the S7 might be slightly lower than your top of the line street-Ferrari (which has been a high mark in recent years), but then again the Enzo is not your average street Ferrari either. Having sat in both cars, I must tell you that the Enzo has very little luxury compared to your average hardcore sports car (S7 included), and has comparatively no luxury next to your average performance car. The S7 is surprisingly luxurious on the other-hand. The interior feels solid and thoughtout, with no feeling of being a stripped to the  bare-bones like the Ferrari (which has no carpeting and features a plethora of exposed carbon fiber; on the s7 the only visible carbon fiber in the passenger compartment is the seat backs). The only part that doesn't look like it belongs is the audio "head unit", which is sourced from some large audio company (alpine or pioneer if memory serves). The Ferrari feels like a street-legal race car, where as the S7 seems designed for more road use than track use.
All in all, comparing Saleen, Inc. to Ferrari S.p.A. might not be the best match-up, but calling the S7 (which is a +$500,000 OEM built supercar) a "kit-car" similar to sub $100,000 products from Factory Five, Superformance, Mosler, or Ultima is just absurd.

You're right, calling the S7 a kit car is too harsh.  But at $500k expectations should be high and I don't know how the sales figures look today but I'd bet the waiting list (if one could exist given Ferrari's elitist sales attitude towards the Enzo) would be longer for the Ferrari.  I too love the Saleen concept, saw them at the track and they sent chills down my spine.  But for $500k? I think I'd choose the Porsche, partly because I'm infatuated with the engine sound and partly because I suspect it will be worth more in 20 years time.  Saleen has a decent name, but it's too strongly allied with Mustangs which I fear will hurt the long term desireability of the S7.  Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren don't have a "stigma" of being associated with a lower teir product.

I've only seen racing versions of the S7 but my statement was made only on what I'd read in magazines and on the 'net: in other words of dubious accuracy.  If Saleen did produce a car worthy of consideration in that price range then good for them and too bad they aren't attracting the audience they deserve.  If I were in the market for a car which cost twice what I paid for my house I'd give it a test drive (wouldn't even bother entering a Ferrari dealership since they're such arrogant pricks about the Enzo and their other "special editions").  But I suspect I'd end up with the Porsche.

There's a suprising ammount of competition at the "cost no object" sports car level lately.  Bugatti hasn't even been mentioned yet (not a real fan myself).

Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 9:05pm:


Because aside from it costing what? nearly twice as much as an enzo, that thing aint really a car, its just well, its not right
The same can be said for the new koeniggseggggeeegg  minus the top gear wing which is actually faster than the veyron. I think you need to be certifiably insane to even think of driving those two cars.

Craig. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 4:46am:

It may be faster, but remember the Bugatti is limited to it's maximum speed.

Still insane though.

Chris_F wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 11:06am:

Thats the thing though, maybe there are cars that have bettered the Bugattis 250mph. However, these cars, especially the McLaren, were really pushing themselves to the absolute limit to achieve it. The Bugatti has a speed limiter on it. If you removed that who knows what the top speed was. According to the tests done with the Veyron you could have a race between it and a McLaren, letting the McLaren start first and starting the Veyron only when the McLaren got to 100 MPH. The Veyron would still get to 200mph first.

Craig. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 4:46am:

True, but the Veyron weighs two tons (US)!!