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Favorite Fighter/Bomber (Read 5845 times)
Reply #45 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 7:31pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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dcunning30 wrote on Jan 31st, 2007 at 5:42pm:
Charlie, after doing some reading, what you called a primitive system appears to actually be fairly advanced.  Although the seperate lift fan is dead weight  when not in V/STOL mode, it's employment allows it to be able to go supersonic, which the Harrier cannot.  It also allows the F35 to take off with a greater payload than the Harrier, and it's scheme allows for cooler air to hit the pavement which reduces wear and tear on the pavement.

As Charlie said, the P.1154, which was on the drawing board in the 60's was a supersonic Harrier. Infact, the name Harrier was supposed to go to the supersonic aircraft with what we know as the Harrier being called the Kestrel.

As for taking off with heavy loads, what is the take off roll needed to get the plane airbourne when loaded? Bare in mind that the RN are having to fit catapults to their new carriers for the F35 to operate from. And the new carriers are far bigger than the ones they're replacing.
 
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Reply #46 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am

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I'd rather have a VTOL F-35 compromised in order to produce a more capable non-VTOL F-35 than have a non-VTOL F-35 compromised in order to make a more capable VTOL F-35.    Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast.
 
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Reply #47 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm

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Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
  Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast. 


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?
 
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Reply #48 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 1:47pm

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Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
 Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast.  


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?

IMO no, but them Brits (and others) seem to find 'em useful for carrier ops.  A proper carrier (with catapults and arrestor cables) would resolve that little problem...  Smiley
 
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Reply #49 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 2:03pm

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Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 1:47pm:
Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
 Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast.  


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?

IMO no, but them Brits (and others) seem to find 'em useful for carrier ops.  A proper carrier (with catapults and arrestor cables) would resolve that little problem...  Smiley

Thats the problem with the VTOL version. What is the point if a catapult is required to get it off the deck.

Just out of interest, how does the JSF do it's short take offs when fully loaded. Does it have it's liftfan running during the takeoff roll?
 
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Reply #50 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 3:48pm

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Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 1:47pm:
Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
  Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast. 


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?

IMO no, but them Brits (and others) seem to find 'em useful for carrier ops.  A proper carrier (with catapults and arrestor cables) would resolve that little problem...  Smiley


Mmm, we've been tetering on the edge of which size to build (small, or decent size with cats and wires). I wonder if the USMC has had the biggest influence on it for their current carriers (and I suppose possible orders abroad such as Spain and Italy, who I doubt will build bigger carriers). Smiley
 
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Reply #51 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 5:27pm

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Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 3:48pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 1:47pm:
Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
 Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast.  


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?

IMO no, but them Brits (and others) seem to find 'em useful for carrier ops.  A proper carrier (with catapults and arrestor cables) would resolve that little problem...  Smiley


Mmm, we've been tetering on the edge of which size to build (small, or decent size with cats and wires). I wonder if the USMC has had the biggest influence on it for their current carriers (and I suppose possible orders abroad such as Spain and Italy, who I doubt will build bigger carriers). Smiley

But all will probably have to add catapults because the JSF can't use a ski jump. The new RN carriers were always going to be on the large side. But they were still going to have ski jumps on the bow. Now they've been redesigned with catapults for the JSF. I wouldn't be suprised if they added cables as well.
 
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Reply #52 - Feb 2nd, 2007 at 11:15am

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Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 2:03pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 1:47pm:
Charlie wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 12:53pm:
Chris_F wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:50am:
 Although the VTOL variant of the F-35 gets so much press (because it is unique) it still will be a fairly rare beast.  


Which raises the question is the VTOL variant really necessary?

IMO no, but them Brits (and others) seem to find 'em useful for carrier ops.  A proper carrier (with catapults and arrestor cables) would resolve that little problem...  Smiley

Thats the problem with the VTOL version. What is the point if a catapult is required to get it off the deck.

Just out of interest, how does the JSF do it's short take offs when fully loaded. Does it have it's liftfan running during the takeoff roll?

Carrier variants (USN variety at least) don't have a lift fan (and obviously aren't VTOL).  They have an extended wingspan with fold up wings, kinda like an F-18.  If Brit carriers will be built with catapults and cables then I'd assume they'd opt for this variant of the plane.

I don't know if STOL flight will be accomplished with the lift fan.  The only JSF to take to the skies to date wasn't a VTOL version.  
 
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Reply #53 - Feb 4th, 2007 at 9:35pm

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Kinda nice shots of something that hasn't flown yet, wouldn't you agree???

...


...
 
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Reply #54 - Feb 4th, 2007 at 10:35pm

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Papa9571 wrote on Feb 4th, 2007 at 9:35pm:
Kinda nice shots of something that hasn't flown yet, wouldn't you agree???

[img]


[img]

Thats the prototype. The plane as it will be produced hasn't flown yet in it's VTOL form. And it'll be very different from the one in your pictures.
 
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Reply #55 - Feb 5th, 2007 at 7:27am

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Papa9571 wrote on Feb 4th, 2007 at 9:35pm:
Kinda nice shots of something that hasn't flown yet, wouldn't you agree???



Hmmm, yep - that's the X-35. That's equivalent of posting a picture of a Hawker Siddeley Kestrel and saying it's a Harrier (of any sort) - a very different beast indeed.
 
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Reply #56 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 2:42pm

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Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 1st, 2007 at 5:27pm:
But all will probably have to add catapults because the JSF can't use a ski jump.

Why can't the JSF use a ski jump?
 
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Reply #57 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 9:37pm

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B-2.  I love the shape, and I love the engineering achievement that it is.
 
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Reply #58 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 3:35pm

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CAS: Su-25... might be less effective than the A-10 but that doesnt run on truck diesel...
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Reply #59 - Apr 28th, 2007 at 3:20pm

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Man what ever happened to the Sea Harrier Fa.2 and Sea Harrier FRS.1? Those are true fighters.
 
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