Flight 14
04-23-95

1986 C-172P
TEB
Local

2500 SCT; wind 340/10; 60F

0.9 dual
1 landing

"Ground reference maneuvers, intro to T.O and landing"

It's a beautiful flying day, though a bit breezy. M. decides we will keep it local and work on ground reference maneuvers.
I have my materials set up right today, so I won't be fumbling with them in flight. But the airplane's checklist is not with the clipboard... I do a long preflight on 6FR without the checklist, then go inside to get the checklist and double-check each item.
I make a point to religiously follow the in-flight checklist today... I'm learning that everything goes more smoothly that way.

Takeoff from 24 is fair- a little hunting as we roll, but I establish the correct crab as we climb off the runway.
This lesson is much like the last, but M. adds a new task: a rectangular pattern over oblong Lake DeForrest. Another difference is that he has told me he will keep quiet today, and more or less just observe. That is a welcome treat...
I do well on my own. The wind and slight turbulence keep things interesting, but it's no big deal. M. has few comments... he's watching me now; evaluating my progress.
Callup and approach are routine as the flight ends, but again I fail to juggle attitude and power correctly, and I'm too high on final. My landing is... not my best, to say the least.
Oh well... landings are not so dangerous as takeoffs, but they are not easy!
the plan now is to wait for a calmer day to visit Lincoln Park.

Next: Flight 15

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 21^st, 2007 at 10:19am:



Not surprising.........if only they didn't installed the yaw control backwards with respect to how the other two axis work..........

When you want to pitch down, you push the stick and the nose moves AWAY from the input, as it drops.....
When you want the wings to roll to the right, you push the stick right and the right wing drops AWAY from the input - same as the pitch....
Here is the problem......when you want to yaw to the right, you push the right pedal and the nose moves TOWARDS the direction of the input.........not AWAY from it.........

This would be fine Doug, if only the other rudder pedal didn't move when you push on the first one......
the resultant perpendicular vector between both feet is the cause of confusion.....its no different when you ride a bicycle slowly, the right handlebar moves forward and the left goes backward when you turn left.....if you push on the left side, the bike turns right..........most people have become accustomed to this manner of control, long before some people re-learn a different way so they can control a plane....

I've never understood it.......I can manage it in the cockpit, but feel supremely confident that if the rudder pedals worked backwards to how the are arranged now, there would be a much shorter learning curve for yaw control...........

First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....   I did read your post and appreciate your sharing it with us......thanks ! 

Yes indeed Doug, I know that the control is standardized and won't be changed any time soon, I just have always wondered why it came to be the way it is..........I know, I know.....push right - go right,.....but then inside me I think that I feel uncomfortable for twisting my hips left to aim right (this comes from the right foot going forward and the left coming back toward myself) it makes my shoulders want to aim left also when indeed, I want to go the other way..........anyway....I accept the way it is and always will be, .....I just can't help but think, Hmmmmm......why ?  

.........


ps: This isn't the first time that this has come to the front with me.....I had the same indepth discussion with a very good friend of mine (aerobatic qualified, owned a 150 hp Citabria and even worked on the wingbox of the Avro Arrow in its day, so I guess you could say he knew his stuff !).....personal feelings still unresolved to this day, on the subject !      

Rifleman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2007 at 3:48pm:

Pffft! Forget it, pal... I'm a notorious thread hijacker.

I am annoyed, though,  that you're giving me a headache with all this technical talk about yaw control... "step on the ball" works fine for me, always has. 

Of course one doesn't look at the ball when flaring or rotating, but the other intuitive analogy that's always worked for me is to think of it like riding a tricycle... when you turn, the opposite foot goes forward.
Or maybe you never had a tricycle? Poor thing... 

Speaking of rudder pedals, as I re-read this journal entry, I think I was wandering while rolling simply because I didn't quite have a feel yet for the 172...

Ummm.. Sean, does this mean we aren't gonna get to see the journal entry from the day you had pedal dislexia  

I had it from day one. I mean, even the first attempt at taxiing was awkward. I just pictured a little go-cart I made as a kid where the front "axel" was a 2X4 with lawn-mower wheels on either end; mounted to the "frame" at a pivot-point and my feet would set on either side of the pivot.



I never did have it again, in flight or landing..  that flare was TRUE dislexia.. as in.. I intended, visualized, KNEW to push one pedal and ended up on the other.. I was in the middle of managing a X-wind, so there was no doubt which pedal did what..   (a mere brain fart)

beaky wrote on Jan 21^st, 2007 at 4:43pm:



Did I miss something in childhood Sean ?  ......don't you steer a tricycle by the handlebars and provide motive power with your feet ?  ......when you steer to the right - gee, the left hand pushes, not the right hand ?.......        

Now to really make your head spin.......when you yaw to the right with a plane, the nose moves right, the tail moves left, the right wingtip moves back and the left wing moves forward...all rotating around the center of the aircraft.........yet they have us make a rudder input with the pedals going in a counter rotative motion ?.......making your head hurt yet ?........      

I hope this is all being taken in good fun, but the logical reality of it is absurd.......

I, like so many of us here, have had a lifelong passion about aviation.  This is one thing I have never been able to make sense of in all my years.......relatedly, Doug may understand this one.....yrs ago a friend of mine was trying to learn to fly by radio control around the time of the advent of proportional control. His instructor was using a Mode 1 transmitter (pitch and roll on different sticks) to teach with.......result, out of of control constantly and occasional crashes. He thought of why he was having so much trouble and came down to the fact that real planes use the same stick for pitch and roll. Frank went ahead on his own and changed things so he could make it more like a real plane (now accepted as Mode 2 - right stick controls pitch and roll). He had no idea this was already being done by others too.
If you don't have any idea or knowledge of anything different, why would you question things? My questions came from the fact that I understood some early planes used a foot bar with a center pivot to control rudder......giving a rotational input opposite to the intended directional change request........nope, never got it then and don't really get it now.........although presently, I do what's needed in the air, at the time I need to do it..........