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Change in flight history (Read 1681 times)
Dec 24th, 2006 at 11:39pm

murjax   Offline
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Take a look at this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_21_%28plane%29 Shocker isn't it.  Shocked Shocked ShockedAfter all these years most people think it happened in 1903 in Kitty Hawk, NC but it actually happened in Fairfield, CT in 1901. This is really amazing. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 3:41pm

Ivan   Offline
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So he was kept out of history books because he forgot to write logs... now thats a shame
 

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Reply #2 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 7:43pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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He was kept out of history because he failed to write logs and acted in a manner that would make anyone suspicious. If he really was the first man to achieve powered flight then why would he do all his flights at night/early morning when no one could watch?
 

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Reply #3 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 9:17pm

murjax   Offline
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Woodlouse2002 wrote on Dec 26th, 2006 at 7:43pm:
He was kept out of history because he failed to write logs and acted in a manner that would make anyone suspicious. If he really was the first man to achieve powered flight then why would he do all his flights at night/early morning when no one could watch?
Well maybe he did it at night/early morning because he didn't want to crash into any people. That wouldn't be good. At night, people are sleeping so if the plane did something strange and crashed into a sidewalk or road, there wouldn't be anybody to hit. I don't think the plane was big enough to damage houses. As far as flight logs, not everybody wants to go public with things. However, the US Air Force teaches that he was the first to fly.  Smiley
 

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Reply #4 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 5:14am

Hagar   Offline
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This has cropped up before. A quick google will show that Gustave Whitehead is not the only one who could claim to be the first man to fly. Here's just a few who some people believe should have the credit.

The Wright Brothers Myth
Alberto Santos-Dumont
Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim
Richard Pearse

The fact is that the Wright Brothers are internationally accepted as the first & no amount of argument will change that.

Quote:
If he really was the first man to achieve powered flight then why would he do all his flights at night/early morning when no one could watch?

The most likely reason is that the wind tends to drop in the early morning & evening. The calmer air would make these the best times for testing those early flying machines. The same reason they wait tiil dusk to fly the Edwardian machines at Old Warden.
 

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Reply #5 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 2:50pm

murjax   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Dec 27th, 2006 at 5:14am:
This has cropped up before. A quick google will show that Gustave Whitehead is not the only one who could claim to be the first man to fly. Here's just a few who some people believe should have the credit.

The Wright Brothers Myth
Alberto Santos-Dumont
Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim
Richard Pearse

The fact is that the Wright Brothers are internationally accepted as the first & no amount of argument will change that.

Quote:
If he really was the first man to achieve powered flight then why would he do all his flights at night/early morning when no one could watch?

The most likely reason is that the wind tends to drop in the early morning & evening. The calmer air would make these the best times for testing those early flying machines. The same reason they wait tiil dusk to fly the Edwardian machines at Old Warden.
The only reason that makes me believe that Whitehead did fly first is that the US Air Force teaches that he was the first to fly and trust me, they wouldn't teach that if they we not sure that he did fly first.  Wink
 

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Reply #6 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 5:19pm

Hagar   Offline
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murjax wrote on Dec 27th, 2006 at 2:50pm:
The only reason that makes me believe that Whitehead did fly first is that the US Air Force teaches that he was the first to fly and trust me, they wouldn't teach that if they we not sure that he did fly first.  Wink

We only have your word on that. Can you provide a link to a reliable source?
 

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Reply #7 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 7:26pm

murjax   Offline
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For some strange reason I can't find that page anymore where it says that the US Air Force says that he was the first to fly, but I am 100% sure that it said that somewhere. If anyone happens to come across it please give me the link.
 

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Reply #8 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 7:33pm

Hagar   Offline
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I found this but I don't think a retired Air Force Major represents the official USAF position on it. http://www.rccaraction.com/fj/articles/wff/wff1.asp
 

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Reply #9 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 7:43pm

murjax   Offline
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That wasn't the page but that still sheads some more light on it. Thank you for that link but if you find any others please post them so we can see them.
 

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Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2007 at 8:46pm

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Woodlouse2002 wrote on Dec 26th, 2006 at 7:43pm:
He was kept out of history because he failed to write logs and acted in a manner that would make anyone suspicious. If he really was the first man to achieve powered flight then why would he do all his flights at night/early morning when no one could watch?


Many test flights are made in secrecy, partly to avoid embarassment in case of failure (definitely bad if you have lots of oyher people's money invested in the venture) and also to make sure nobody steals your idea and beats you to the patent office.

Also, I'd guess that early "kites" like Whitehead's benefitted a great deal from launching at dawn or dusk when the wind is generally calmer.

Bleriot departed before dawn on his Channel crossing; that's one example.
 

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Reply #11 - Jan 14th, 2007 at 11:24pm

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Maybe he didn't keep log books because there was no official way of doing things aeronautically back then. There weren't even airplanes, so who say's you have to have a log book? Oh, and for the record, I don't really care who was first. Even if they all made their flights simultaneously, they all developed their ideas independently so each one was a new invention in itself.
 

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Reply #12 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 2:57am

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From all the reading I've done on this subject the general consensus seems to be that the Wright Brothers were the first to make a CONTROLLED powered flight and the first to be able to sustain and extend their flights under full control.  All possible powered flights claimed before the Wright Bro's were not considered to be controlled enough to be sustainable.
 

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Reply #13 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 5:40am

Hagar   Offline
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TacitBlue wrote on Jan 14th, 2007 at 11:24pm:
Maybe he didn't keep log books because there was no official way of doing things aeronautically back then. There weren't even airplanes, so who say's you have to have a log book?

Not the formal logbooks pilots use today but a diary or any sort of written records with dates & witness reports. Photos would also be useful as proof.
 

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Reply #14 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 11:51am

murjax   Offline
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eno wrote on Jan 15th, 2007 at 2:57am:
From all the reading I've done on this subject the general consensus seems to be that the Wright Brothers were the first to make a CONTROLLED powered flight and the first to be able to sustain and extend their flights under full control.  All possible powered flights claimed before the Wright Bro's were not considered to be controlled enough to be sustainable.
I think Whitehead flew across the Long Island Sound with a second plane he built. Now that must have been a controled flight.  Smiley
 

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Reply #15 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 3:24pm

Hagar   Offline
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murjax wrote on Jan 15th, 2007 at 11:51am:
I think Whitehead flew across the Long Island Sound with a second plane he built. Now that must have been a controled flight.  Smiley

"I think". That's the whole point & we simply don't know. Whitehead apparently never kept much in the way of accurate records. I've read that he did not consider his efforts a success & was not interested in claiming any credit. All he wanted to do was fly & anyone that did see him do it first-hand is probably long dead by now.

The Wright Brothers were businessmen & knew the value of keeping accurate records but even with photos they had problems convincing the authorities & public of their success. The original Flyer was wrecked on that day after four successful flights & would never fly again. They made no further flights until 1904 with the Flyer II & the invited reporters had strict instructions that no photos be taken. I'm sure the reason for this was to protect their patent rights which had still not been granted. They made no flights at all in 1906 and 1907.

PS. http://gustavewhitehead.org/
 

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Reply #16 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 4:11pm

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TacitBlue wrote on Jan 14th, 2007 at 11:24pm:
Maybe he didn't keep log books because there was no official way of doing things aeronautically back then. There weren't even airplanes, so who say's you have to have a log book? Oh, and for the record, I don't really care who was first. Even if they all made their flights simultaneously, they all developed their ideas independently so each one was a new invention in itself.

No, but the nautical ways which were simply carbon copied for air travel were long established. Anyway, no one says he had to have a logbook as we know it to be. But any inventor keeps notes and records of what they did.
 

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Reply #17 - Jan 25th, 2007 at 4:48pm

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That was a second plane, thus could have been after the Wright Brothers.

But, we all know that a lot of aviatiors were bizzy in those days, all around the world, so it wouldnt surprise me if a whole lot more people managed to get themselves flying.
 
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