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The White Rose (Read 357 times)

Dec 20^th, 2006 at 9:55am

dcunning30 Offline
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I've read about them some time ago. This past weekend, I had a chance to see the movie Sophie Scholl. I was impressed. In the trial scene, Nazi judge, Roland Freisler was ranting and raving. In the interview section of the DVD, at the end of Sophie Scholl's sister's interview, there was actual footage of Hans Scholl's trial. The judge was more over the top and abusive than the movie depicted.

Hans Scholl, Sophie Scholl, and Christoph Probst, all executed by the NAZI's for daring to print anti-NAZI leaflettes.

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Reply #1 - Dec 20^th, 2006 at 3:13pm

expat Offline
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Got to the wrong part of the world today and distribute something "anti" and you would still be getting the same treatment. Lips Sealed

Lips Sealed

Matt

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Reply #2 - Dec 20^th, 2006 at 5:05pm

dcunning30 Offline
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expat wrote on Dec 20^th, 2006 at 3:13pm:

Got to the wrong part of the world today and distribute something "anti" and you would still be getting the same treatment. Lips Sealed

Lips Sealed

Matt

I think you're right. I wonder, is Salman Rushdie still in hiding? Huh

Huh

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Reply #3 - Dec 21^st, 2006 at 2:41am

expat Offline
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dcunning30 wrote on Dec 20^th, 2006 at 5:05pm:

expat wrote on Dec 20^th, 2006 at 3:13pm:

Got to the wrong part of the world today and distribute something "anti" and you would still be getting the same treatment. Lips Sealed

Lips Sealed

Matt

I think you're right. I wonder, is Salman Rushdie still in hiding? Huh

Huh

He pops his head up from time to time, mainly when plugging another book.

Matt

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Reply #4 - Dec 31^st, 2006 at 11:07am

beaky Offline
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These young people are some of Germany's greatest heroes, often overlooked when non-Germans discuss or consider that period in history.

Free speech: use it or lose it!

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Reply #5 - Dec 31^st, 2006 at 5:13pm

C Offline
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dcunning30 wrote on Dec 20^th, 2006 at 5:05pm:

I think you're right. I wonder, is Salman Rushdie still in hiding? Huh

Huh

Not as much as he used to be...

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Reply #6 - Jan 2^nd, 2007 at 5:11pm

Heretic Ex Member

beaky wrote on Dec 31^st, 2006 at 11:07am:

These young people are some of Germany's greatest heroes, often overlooked when non-Germans discuss or consider that period in history.

I'm surprised that someone actually mentions this here.

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Reply #7 - Jan 3^rd, 2007 at 10:38am

dcunning30 Offline
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And Roland Freisler escaped the gallows by getting killed during an air raid.

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Reply #8 - Jan 3^rd, 2007 at 1:45pm

Heretic Ex Member

dcunning30 wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2007 at 10:38am:

And Roland Freisler escaped the gallows by getting killed during an air raid.

Now that's what you can call a lucky buggar. Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #9 - Jan 6^th, 2007 at 8:18pm

Ijineda Offline
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The members of the "Weisse Rose" sure were courageous, but theres something I have to add, also in the direction of the conspiracy of the 20th of June 1944: they all acted too late.

Why did they not raise their voices in, let´s say 1938, if they were really against Hitler? Why did they only came in 1943 or 1944 when it was obvious that Germany was losing the war?

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Reply #10 - Jan 6^th, 2007 at 9:25pm

Heretic Ex Member

Ijineda wrote on Jan 6^th, 2007 at 8:18pm:

Why did they not raise their voices in, let´s say 1938, if they were really against Hitler?

Because till, let's say the end of 1940, it really worked out. Hitler got the people Autobahnen, a lower crime rate, jobs plus serveral countries and practically ended the everlasting Post-Versailles disgrace while making Germany the world's most fearsome country.
England wasn't that much of a dangerous opponent and no one of those on the street realized that the guy leading the country wanted way more than he had achieved.
The "Endlösung" wasn't much of a subject either.

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Reply #11 - Jan 7^th, 2007 at 8:35am

Ijineda Offline
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Yeah, I think the climax of popularity was in 1940 after the conquest of the biggest opponent - France. BUT: it was clear where Hitler was aiming at. Sure, the Endlösung only took place since 1943, but the assaults on jews or communists startet right in 1933...just remember the Reichskristallnacht in 1938.

But I know that it is sooo easy to judge nowadays.

So I got one question: How would Hitler be seen today if he died from a heart attack in 1938? And how would Germany and therefore Europe and therefore the World look?

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Reply #12 - Jan 7^th, 2007 at 9:08am

expat Offline
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Ijineda wrote on Jan 7^th, 2007 at 8:35am:

So I got one question: How would Hitler be seen today if he died from a heart attack in 1938? And how would Germany and therefore Europe and therefore the World look?

Probably not too much of a PC answer, but possibly grossly over populated Undecided

Undecided

And Hitler would have been seen as an innovative and dynamic leader of the 20 century Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Matt

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Reply #13 - Jan 7^th, 2007 at 9:16am

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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expat wrote on Jan 7^th, 2007 at 9:08am:

Ijineda wrote on Jan 7^th, 2007 at 8:35am:

So I got one question: How would Hitler be seen today if he died from a heart attack in 1938? And how would Germany and therefore Europe and therefore the World look?

Probably not too much of a PC answer, but possibly grossly over populated Undecided

Undecided

And Hitler would have been seen as an innovative and dynamic leader of the 20 century Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Matt

Probably not that over populated. There wouldn't have been the post war baby boom. Not sure how WWII effected the spread of communism though. But chances are the population would be similar if not smaller.

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #14 - Jan 7^th, 2007 at 12:26pm

Heretic Ex Member

Ijineda wrote on Jan 7^th, 2007 at 8:35am:

BUT: it was clear where Hitler was aiming at.

Nope. Surprisingly, only very few people ever read "Mein Kampf", in which Hitler's aims were stated. That book was either not even touched or not taken seriously.

Quote:

Sure, the Endlösung only took place since 1943, but the assaults on jews or communists startet right in 1933...just remember the Reichskristallnacht in 1938.

There has always been a slight anitsemitism in the people throughout Europe, which was perfectly fueled by national socialist propaganda.
The anticommunism...well...popular movement of the early 20th century?

Quote:

So I got one question: How would Hitler be seen today if he died from a heart attack in 1938? And how would Germany and therefore Europe and therefore the World look?

Differently and probably communist.

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Reply #15 - Jan 7^th, 2007 at 12:50pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

Differently and probably communist.

I don't think communist. With out WWII Russia wouldn't have modernised it's army as rapidly as it did. Also it would have had no chance to expand into eastern europe as I don't think the world would have been as patient with Russia as it was with Germany. Communist expansion in the east would have depended on how the Pacific war went (as it was at first completely unrelated to Europe), and as there wouldn't have been a war in Europe then both Britain and America would have been able to concentrate on the pacific. The Royal Navy in force could have made things very difficult for the Japanise and combined with the USN it wouldn't have taken quite so long to drive them back to the mainland. After Japan left mainland Asia the Russians may have attempted to help the spread of communism, but without the military hardware they developed and manufactured their support could only have been limited.

Then of course you have no WWII, no atomic bomb (as development of the A bomb was fueled by the war in Europe, no the Pacific).

So in my Opinion the world would be very different. But not over populated, and not communist.

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #16 - Jan 8^th, 2007 at 11:38am

dcunning30 Offline
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Ijineda wrote on Jan 6^th, 2007 at 8:18pm:

Why did they not raise their voices in, let´s say 1938, if they were really against Hitler? Why did they only came in 1943 or 1944 when it was obvious that Germany was losing the war?

Maybe they were around 16 years of age in 1938.

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Reply #17 - Jan 8^th, 2007 at 12:26pm

Heretic Ex Member

dcunning30 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2007 at 11:38am:

Maybe they were around 16 years of age in 1938.

Doesn't make sense to me. ;P

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Reply #18 - Jan 8^th, 2007 at 2:46pm

dcunning30 Offline
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Quote:

dcunning30 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2007 at 11:38am:

Maybe they were around 16 years of age in 1938.

Doesn't make sense to me. ;P

You got me there. Sophie Scholl was born in 1921. That makes her 17 in 1938. I stand corrected. Undecided

Undecided

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Reply #19 - Jan 8^th, 2007 at 2:55pm

Heretic Ex Member

dcunning30 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2007 at 2:46pm:

You got me there. Sophie Scholl was born in 1921. That makes her 17 in 1938. I stand corrected. Undecided

Undecided

Still doesn't make any sense. ;P

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