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For those who want the concorde back (Read 1379 times)
Reply #45 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 2:20pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
Woody was correct in his reasons.
Richard Bransons offers were a joke, nothing more. He could have offered a legitimate amount if he was serious.
Airbus stopping supply was down to air france and their ability to pull strings with the airbus management. Air France didn't want to operate the plane, bad income low numbers embarressment for the crash still being around. and told this to airbus, despite BA supplying air france with parts and personelle to keep it flying air france still pulled it from service and airbus said it wouldn't be cost effective to only supply BA. Thus the aircraft was dead.


Seems you cite Airbus not wanting to supply parts as the reason.  But you give the explaination for this as Air France not being able to operate the aircraft profitably, which gives reason for Airbus not wanting to supply parts.  Seems like the cart is before the horse.

 

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Reply #46 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 2:41pm

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The exact timeline went along the lines of Air France telling Airbus they no longer wanted to fly Concorde. They suggested behind closed doors, that BA should no longer continue to operate Concorde because it would cost Air France customers and make AF look bad. So Airbus being the company they are, in turn stopped producing parts for the plane.
 
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Reply #47 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 1:57pm

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Just a quick question... Has any internet patition ever worked on a government agency?  Seems to easy to spoof more "signatures" than are really out there.

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Reply #48 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 2:01pm

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Quote:
Just a quick question... Has any internet patition ever worked on a government agency?  Seems to easy to spoof more "signatures" than are really out there.

You have a very good point there. I doubt very much that any petition (internet or not) has ever affected a government decision.
 

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Reply #49 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 2:18pm

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Chris, Im assuming that by Apollo 14 you mean Apollo 17 Wink

Everyone knows missions Apollo 15 thru 17 were filmed in a movie studio in Hollywood.  They filmed an Apollo 18-21 as well but low ratings eventually killed the series.  The money for those missions went to fund a secret CIA coverup of the Kenedy assassanation.  Smiley  Besides, how could one fly a mission to the moon when the moon itself doesn't exist (to steal a theme from another thread)?
 
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Reply #50 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 5:08pm

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You have a very good point there. I doubt very much that any petition (internet or not) has ever affected a government decision.



Here in the USA petitions (real ones) have power, in that things can be added to the ballot by patition if none of our elected officials will do anything about an issue.

Skwang
 
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Reply #51 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 7:53pm

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In a democracy Petitions can change a lot of things there is an here's A Example In India we have a mini Railway line to a resort which was washed out during the Monsoon,which was a loss making line,Because of the petitions it should be back on track.The Line is over 150 years old.
So lets have a hope we can use Concorde for Joy rides atleast. 8)
 

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Reply #52 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 3:27pm

dcunning30   Offline
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skwang wrote on Dec 2nd, 2006 at 5:08pm:
Quote:
You have a very good point there. I doubt very much that any petition (internet or not) has ever affected a government decision.



Here in the USA petitions (real ones) have power, in that things can be added to the ballot by patition if none of our elected officials will do anything about an issue.

Skwang



But a petition that can not be displayed as serving the public good and can be economically viable will go nowhere.  If the prtitioners can have an answer to these two points, then they have a fighting chance to get their approval.
 

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Reply #53 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 5:17am

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dcunning30 wrote on Dec 5th, 2006 at 3:27pm:
But a petition that can not be displayed as serving the public good and can be economically viable will go nowhere.  If the prtitioners can have an answer to these two points, then they have a fighting chance to get their approval.

Approval from whom?  Is the petition requesting the government to force the airlines to fly the plane?  Or is it to the airlines?  A government may be concerned about serving the public good and such (but sometimes just keeping the voters happy is good enough).  But a company can choose economic viability OR simple public relations as a reason to do something.

And I doubt the public cares enough about the Concorde to impact the airline's PR one bit.  Face it: the only people who care are aviation enthusiasts, a very small chunk of the population.
 
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Reply #54 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 5:39am

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Did anyone actually read the Mission Statement of the Save Concorde Group from the link I posted? Roll Eyes To avoid further confusion about their objective I'll quote it here in full. This would be a heritage project for a single example to display at air shows & public events. There was never any question of returning it to commercial service.

Quote:
Mission Statement

SCG is campaigning to return Concorde to flight. This will enable the Great British public to enjoy witnessing the ongoing celebration of one of the greatest engineering achievements in the history of this country. It would also be a living tribute to cooperation between European nations in the post-war era, and could be timed to coincide with the celebrations for the London Olympics in 2012.

The main obstacle preventing this return to flight is British Airways. They continue to hide behind statements that they refuse to back up in terms of costs and accountability.

The commercial life of the British Concordes had come to an end in 2003 when the aircraft, which remains legally owned by British Airways, were retired to museums. BA itself signalled a desire to see one Concorde fly in a heritage capacity, but the company’s plan failed to get the support of the holder of the type certificate.

Given the unique history of Concorde, both in terms of its development at the taxpayer’s expense, and its subsequent use as a symbol of national pride at state events, we feel that that it is the state, in the guise of the government, who have a role to play in securing access to the type certificate.

We have therefore submitted a petition to the government, and to Airbus (UK). Over 30,000 members of the British public have signed it in the hope that the government might offer assistance in this regard. An Early Day Motion has been raised in the Houses of Parliament calling on the Government to assist in returning a Concorde as a State aircraft.

Note that:
• we are not seeking to change the past
• we are not asking for financial assistance
• we are merely asking for some helpful intervention to facilitate the transfer of documentation and in gaining the access to the aircraft needed to determine a true cost for the stated objectives

The British and French people paid for the development of Concorde. Those same people have a right to be allowed to see this great icon of the 20th century grace the skies once more.

This would be both a fitting tribute to the past cooperation between great European nations, and a living symbol of what we might achieve in the future, if we work together and if we set our sights high: a truly inspirational symbol for peace and technological excellence.
 

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Reply #55 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 10:47am

dcunning30   Offline
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Chris_F wrote on Dec 7th, 2006 at 5:17am:
Approval from whom?  Is the petition requesting the government to force the airlines to fly the plane?  Or is it to the airlines?  A government may be concerned about serving the public good and such (but sometimes just keeping the voters happy is good enough).  But a company can choose economic viability OR simple public relations as a reason to do something.


I agree with that statement, completely.  I was referring to some governmental entity.  My opinion is airlines will keep planes in their fleet if that plane makes economic sense.  If Concord was a moneymaker, it would still be in the air today.

Quote:
And I doubt the public cares enough about the Concorde to impact the airline's PR one bit.  Face it: the only people who care are aviation enthusiasts, a very small chunk of the population.


Once again, I agree.
 

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Reply #56 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 10:54am

dcunning30   Offline
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Hagar,

so the petition is to request the government to intervene with the holder of the type certificate to grant approval fir Concorde to fly in a heritage capacity?  So the roadblock might either be the holder of the certificate (government entity? ) or BA making excuses?  If this type ceritificate is granted, who would pay for it's maintance and operating costs?
 

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Reply #57 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 11:02am

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I assume that would have to be decided if & when they get the necessary approvals. Nothing is impossible but, as I said in my first reply in this topic, I see little chance of that happening. Quote:
Concorde is dead. Forget it.


PS. The holder of the type certificate is the prime manufacturer, in this case Airbus.
 

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Reply #58 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 11:26am

dcunning30   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Dec 7th, 2006 at 11:02am:
PS. The holder of the type certificate is the prime manufacturer, in this case Airbus.


I don't know how rampant litigation ir over in the UK, but here in the US, the holder of the certificate's lawyers whould be saying: "Are you kidding?  You seen the videos of that Concord with flames shooting out of it?  If we released the certificate, and something happens that caused a loss of life, our *sses would be drug into court in front of a jury of grandmothers.  We'd have no chance! We might get off easy by paying $1 million per litigant!"
 

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Reply #59 - Dec 7th, 2006 at 11:33am

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dcunning30 wrote on Dec 7th, 2006 at 11:26am:
I don't know how rampant litigation ir over in the UK, but here in the US, the holder of the certificate's lawyers whould be saying: "Are you kidding?  You seen the videos of that Concord with flames shooting out of it?  If we released the certificate, and something happens that caused a loss of life, our *sses would be drug into court in front of a jury of grandmothers.  We'd have no chance! We might get off easy by paying $1 million per litigant!"

I don't thnk that has any relevance in this instance. Concorde was extensively modified after that unfortunate accident & returned to regular service. If it was deemed fit to carry fare-paying passengers across the Atlantic every day it should be safe enough to do the occasional flypast at an air display.

Further discussion seems pointless as all this has been debated here at considerable length in the past.
 

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