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FSX vrs FS9... is it really THAT different? (Read 5672 times)
Reply #135 - Nov 29th, 2006 at 6:54pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Quote:
They provided the race track, it’s up to you to provide the car and how fast you go on that track is determined by your budget in that car, just like anything else when it comes to play-toys in this world.


One of the best descriptions of the situation that I have seen anywhere.  This is a "must read" statement.

Nice analogy Nick!

best,

....................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #136 - Nov 29th, 2006 at 6:57pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Quote:
 I know they added more weather reporting stations, but how far off is the day when weather can be morphed between stations so you can actually fly from thick clouds into mostly cloudy, then partly cloudy etc.  One of my pet peeves is when Im on approach and go from clear to zero visibility instantaneously.  Cant wait till they make it so you descend and see the fog layer before you lose the visibility.  Todd


Todd,

This is ALREADY possible in fs9 with the paid version of FSUIPC.  Once you tweek it.... the transitions between the Microsoft "weather cells" are very realistic.  I don't have FSX....but I assume that the new version of FSUIPC already addresses this issue.

best,

......................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #137 - Nov 29th, 2006 at 10:48pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Okay Nick, fair enough....  Smiley I'm sure you're right. But I think I'm right too... in fact we're all right - from our own perspectives  Smiley

I'm going to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

Krigl





I really did push hard for a lower budget alternative however that was never the format being designed and M$ is well aware of who they are marketing the product to.


I was not trying to be harsh, just state the facts. I am very empathetic to the desires and the limitations placed on budget incomes for such things.

One of the reasons I donate my time here is to give back as much as I can because I am very fortunate to be able to enjoy many things others may not. If there is something I can give which will provide someone who may be less fortunate a much better experience then my presence here is worth the time 10 fold.

I also guest lecture and mentor through the local university and I am involved with the Big Brothers program as well.

The universe is a funny place... I firmly believe in "what goes around comes around"

« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2006 at 12:13am by N/A »  
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Reply #138 - Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:40pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Nick, from a development standpoint, did you discuss the future of upgrading things such as ATC and weather?  The ATC must be hard coded, as there are no free or payware improvements that address its short comings that I am aware of.  I know they added more weather reporting stations, but how far off is the day when weather can be morphed between stations so you can actually fly from thick clouds into mostly cloudy, then partly cloudy etc.  One of my pet peeves is when Im on approach and go from clear to zero visibility instantaneously.  Cant wait till they make it so you descend and see the fog layer before you lose the visibility.  Todd


There were no such discussions because I was not involved with the development team. I was dealing directly with corporate and although there were discussions about ATC and weather, they were not targeted for changes, just suggestions for possible changes.

As for my connections with Aces and the FSX development team, there are none. I was asked to be an independent consultant for the FSX evaluation through a firm I am semi employed with. It was to be an unbiased evaluation through which suggestions and ideas would be collected but the primary goal was to evaluate the title for critical errors in order to make a final decision to release.

Check you PM for web links to FS9 weather related content which may help with what you were asking about.


 
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Reply #139 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 12:24pm

Joe_D   Offline
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I'm back... Wink

First off ,when "I said I rest my case", I was refering to the "flaming".

Now, there has been some discussion of privileged/ esoteric (whatever you wish to call it) info reguarding the developement of FSX.
Ok, It was interesting and informative.

However, I stil maintain that the general public who is a first time  FSer could not care less about all that.
All they are concerded about is for it to run reasonably well with a fairly up to date computer.
They defiinately do not expect to have to scoure the net for tweaks, fixes, and patchs, etc.
The just want to run the program  they seen advertised relatively trouble free...... period.

Why is a readme that explains the present  limitations of FSX and the need to pruchase future hardware and OS to realize the full potental of the product they bought yesterday only available after you purchase the program?

Yes,  People like us assume that we will need to upgrade, and tweak.
The general non siomming public to whom  MS is agressively marketing FSX to does not expect this and has a very bad opinion of FSX.

This is my position. Why is this so had to understand for some?

 

Home airports are KMGJ and KSWF in Orange County, NY&&Stop by and say hello. Smiley
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Reply #140 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 1:42pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
This is my position. Why is this so had to understand for some?


I understand, and agree, almost completely. Where we were butting heads was when you were telling "me" that my head was in the sand and "we" are in fantasyland, if we're not labeling FSX as a program with "horrifying errors"..or agreeing with you that it's flawed in nature and buggy enough to not even bother running. I am and always have been empathetic to those mis-led by minimum specs. But that's nothing new... and it doesn't take away from the incredible advancements and improvements in FSX.
 
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Reply #141 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 8:25pm

Mobius   Offline
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Quote:


Roll Eyes
 

...
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Reply #142 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 8:38pm

flyboy 28   Offline
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I like FSX. Tongue
 
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Reply #143 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 8:56pm

Mobius   Offline
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Quote:
I like FSX. Tongue

Grin
 

...
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Reply #144 - Nov 30th, 2006 at 10:17pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Here is my position.

I could care less if someone is a newcomer to computers or games, is not smart enough to research properly and runs out and buys something on a whim.

Anyone who has been around computers and plays games knows exactly what "minimum system requirements" means. Those who don’t, I guess they get to learn **the hard way** like anyone else who has been working or playing around computers since the days of Windows 95.

We all have to start somewhere and it is not Microsoft's responsibility to teach the newbie’s of the world the ins and outs of IT and gaming any more than it is their responsibility to insure their software runs 100% on ever combination of computer components on this planet.

If people ask in the forums, I will be glad to recommend what they should get in order to obtain the best experience OR warn if they try to skimp, AND let them know there are some glitches to be resolved along with the hardware limits even the best hardware many have, however, I WILL NOT sit there and whine about Microsoft Corporation or shoot off my mouth about things I know absolutely nothing about just to prepare the thread and build it up for my grand finale about how the company is totally at fault and is ripping everyone off.

If it is my goal to come into a thread and repeat a broken record of built up "dumps" on the software and claim the manufacture is against my principles when I am STILL RUNNING their software, I am nothing but a lousy hypocrite and I am in that thread just to blow off steam and help no one but MYSELF in the process.

I take notice when someone uses terms like: "MS is aggressively marketing FSX” when the person who says that has neither defined or exampled the term ‘aggressive’ or defined what it is in that so called "aggressive marketing' that may be inaccurate or dishonest.

Some people tend to stretch as much as they can to the very extreme in order to make a statement which supports nothing but personal issues instead of certified or defined FACTs.

I see no aggressive marketing. I see a few simple TV commercials in which the graphics are blurry, there is little or no ground eye-candy shown, the aircraft stutters like hell as it fly’s by the screen and the entire commercial is about having some fun. I see nothing about being able to experience the entire world in rich 35mm 3D realism with wild frame rate ability.

And where is this enormous list of non simming public who believe they have been lied to based on the 'aggressive marking' and have a bad opinion of FSX??

What publication can I refer to that will show me the statistics which demonstrate the outcry of people who are picketing Microsoft or have a bad opinion about FSX?

Those are the statements I take notice of. When they are compiled with the rest of the garbage it spells one thing ...

"I'm Pissed Off At Microsoft Because My Toy Doesn't Work The Way I want It To So I am Going To Make Everyone Else Think It's Bad"

What I DO see advertised is exactly what I GET with every level of 'today’s' hardware listed.

QUOTE:
Minimum supported system requirements
“PCs that meet the minimum supported system requirements will be able to run the core features of Windows Vista with the basic user experience”

Basic User Experience… I love it.
Translation: No eye candy and slow response

FSX HARDWARE QUOTE:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927286
Computer games push the limits of the computer's processing capabilities. Flight Simulator X is no different. A 3-D graphics card is required to run Flight Simulator X. The other minimum system requirements are listed in the following table. Make sure that the computer meets the minimum system requirements. You may want to upgrade the computer for better performance.

Item:

Minimum                        
CPU 1.0 gigahertz (GHz)                                                                      
Memory 256 megabytes (MB)                                          
Video Card 32 MB                                                                  
Internet 56.6 modem                                                              

Recommended
2.8 GHz
1 gigabytes (GB)
64 MB
Broadband

Best
3.6 GHz
2 GB
512 MB
Broadband

Looks like we need a 3.6gig processor, 2GB of memory on a 512mb video card to get the best results.

You may want to upgrade the computer for better performance.

That means upgrade even PAST the BEST specs.

The term BEST is defined by the best hardware you can buy when FSX was released. If you ain't got it, you don’t get the BEST performance POSSIBLE with AVAILABLE hardware.

And even with the BEST, you still don’t get it all. That’s where innovation and being ready for the future and the RIGHT hardware when it becomes available so profits will continue. (Falls under the guidelines of the fiduciary responsibility of the Board of Directors to the shareholders)

You ABSOLUTELY can NOT produce a product like FSX for year old video card technology and patch it later for the better devices. The primary release must be designed for a specified window of time in order to remain on the market long enough to keep up with the regular 6 month interval in hardware innovations which has been the norm in the computer industry since the 1990's

The non simmimg public is not mine, SimV's or anyone else’s responsibility. There is no need for a crusade to save the newbie. They will have to LEARN just like everyone else had to learn and if they are serious enough about wanting the best the software has to offer they will research, ask questions and obtain their goals.

THAT is where the FSX forum on SimV comes in. The FSX board is dedicated to discussion and assistance in the research and help in obtaining the goals. The General topic forum on this board will support all the rants anyone wants to make.

When I respond to someone in the FSX forum it should be done without using that post or thread to start a political dump about the manufacture of the product simply because I was dumb enough to not research, take heeds, listen to highly experienced people and take the proper action with my hardware.

At that point I have to get real, get over it, and suck it up.

Statements such as.. “Its not working like I thought it would on my hardware. I thought what I purchased in the way of hardware was enough but I found out different.” Are GOOD and pass on real information that can help someone not make the same mistakes.

Instead of: “Microsoft lied about the hardware specs and they are being sneaky in how they are marketing it. It has problems that no patch or update can fix. You have to get into the minds of the Board of Directors because they are all about money and don’t care how they get it”

--------------- Leave the bullchit in the barn where it belongs and stuff a sock in it ------------------





I will not be around here for several weeks. I do hope this subject gets discussed and some real ‘sense’ comes from the outcome.
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2006 at 12:04am by N/A »  
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Reply #145 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:28am

Katahu   Offline
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One one hand, I have to agree with Nick in the case of the newbies buying new software. For example:

I use to buy a handful of games like Full Spectrum Warrior, Enter The Matrix, Guild Wars, and [gasp]The Sims[/gasp]. Few were excellent, some were ok, the rest were crab. Like any other newbie buying a software that he/she suspects of being flawed later on after trying it out, I would just kick the CDs to the side and forget that it ever existed. After that, I move on to the next game to try out. I don't go to forums, posting things that can start an arguement. I have a whole cd rack of pc games [nearly half were crabby] and I can't return any of them for a refund because all of the gaming companies are now using a policy that prevents me from having my money back. So, if any of you think Microsoft is the only greedy money maker around here, think again.

But on the other hand, it's best to go to forums and post criticism about the product so that the companies can see where they went wrong and try [to the best of their ability] to make the next version better. Without criticism, softwares will never improve and we would still be stuck in a Windows 95 environment. I have seen many improvements about FSX over FS9. For starters:

1. Space has been implemented. You don't have to worry about the pesky height barrier so that you can finally fly your Blackbird at the appropriate altittude.

2. Even though the automated ATC functions haven't changed much, you can at least call up the refuel truck, review your radio history, you can even ask to go to the nearest refueling area.

3. Multiplayer has finally improved with its stability. Not only can I finally see smoke from my online buddy, I can also ask the sim to load me up next to the host's aircraft [whether he's in the air or on the ground] among other things that FS9 can't support [ie: user-controlled ATC, visual radars, etc.]. Of course, not everyone likes Gamespy. But if you've been keeping tabs on FSHost, you'll see that there's hope.

The downside that I see so far:

The terrain seems to freeze up and lock up into the monitor like a image burnt into somebody's mind while the scenery objects and aircraft go about their business. This gives the strange feeling that you're in suspended animation. But like I said before, this seems to be hardware related as the problem goes away as soon as I run FSX on my dad's computer [which is better than mine].

Blurries are still an issue. But there is a way to go around it. You either:

A. look for the tweak that the FSX creators have provided and paste it onto the FSX.cfg file.

B. go to your weather menu and set visibility so that you'll see a deep haze covering the distance. Not only will this cover up the blurries, it will also cover up any gaps left behind by the autogen in the distance. Haze also gives a realistic effect when mountains are involved. They also cover any shimering that occurs in the distance and helps the sun look more realistic when it shines. Besides, I have flown as a passenger on real-life commercial jet. And every time I look out the window, I will always see a very, very, deep layer of haze covering whole cities even on both takeoff and landing even though the weather looks extra clear when you're standing on the ground. The haze also seems to cover the entire globe as you get higher in these jets. I'm guessing the humidity is involved. But then again, Arkansas is a state that's no where near water. I also experienced a similiar effect when I first flew on a cessna in civil air patrol at only 1,200ft MSL. I only had three rides, but the effect was the same every time whether it's in the morning or the afternoon over Miami. Grin
 
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