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Falling Apart (Read 800 times)
Nov 16th, 2006 at 10:49pm
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Okay, today my heater stopped working, the car started overheating, and the engine does not idle at a constant RPM. The car revs up and down by itself while idling. The vents blow air but it is no longer warm/hot air. There is also some rattling at higher RPM, but thats minor, and may be unrelated.

What do you think is wrong? Would a vacuum leak cause this? Water pump timing belt set incorrectly? There are so many things that could go wrong, I wish I could better understand how a car works.

I had a power steering leak recently and drove around for about a month without power steering fluid. Just something to keep in mind. Maybe that fucked something up? I didn't fix the leak, and started using automatic transmission fluid instead of power steering fluid because it is cheaper.

I am getting a new car this winter but for the timebeing I need this thing to get me through exams. It is a 1992 Toyota Tercel - 300,000 km, I don't know if that is important information. I have a Haynes manual but it doesn't seem to be helping much.
 
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Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2006 at 2:32am

expat   Offline
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I would start simple. Check the Thermostate. If it is remaining closed, then the car will over heat and you would not get hot water to the heater matrix. Remove it, put it in a glass, poor boiling water on it. If it opens then it is OK, if not then you need a new one. As for automatic transmission fluid in the power steering, no connection.

I am sure that other forum members can come up with more suggestions, but if you have limited car knowledge, then there are two options. Ask someone who does know or KISS....keep it simple stupid  Grin

Matt
 
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Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2006 at 9:59am
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Thanks, that makes sense.
 
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Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2006 at 2:41pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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The first thing to do is remove the radiator cap(when the engine is cool) and check for adequate coolant level. If that's o.k then it sounds like a blockage somewhere. As stated above, start with the easiest - the thermostat. It could also be be a blocked radiator(unlikely since it would have to be a huge blockage) or a failing water pump. At any rate something's causing a halt in the proper circulation of the coolant. With the radiator cap removed and engine running, you should be able to see circulation after the thermostat opens, that is if it opens.
Also, it's not a good idea to subsitute transmission fluid for power steering fluid. Most transmission fluid has friction additives which will cause premature wear in the steering pump and rack.
 
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Reply #4 - Nov 22nd, 2006 at 10:46am
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
The problem came back so I took out the thermostat with the housing. Thermostat doesn't seem to open in hot water. If I push down on the bottom of the therostat, is the top supposed to open? It's not opening. I didn't remove it from the housing because the washers didn't look great, although the thermostat looks fine.

One of the bolts keeping the thermostat housing in place snapped. I removed the bolt but now I need a new one. Also, I accidentally snapped one of the wire connectors. It is connected to the "Coolant Temperature Sending Unit". Maybe I can ducktape it or superglue it back together.
 
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Reply #5 - Nov 22nd, 2006 at 11:58am

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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You shouldn't be able to push it open by hand. If it didn't open in hot water (180° - 200°, depending on rating) it needs replaced. A new one will come with gaskets. I would splice in a new or good used connector. Tape or superglue isn't a good conductor. The bolt should be no problem to replace. Just make it's metric and the correct thread pitch. Make sure the threads in the housing are usable too. I always apply anti-seize compound when bolting aluminum parts. It keeps the electrolosis to a minimum.
 
...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
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Reply #6 - Nov 22nd, 2006 at 12:51pm
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Thanks.

Yes, I can get a thermostat gasket, and thermostat O-ring with the thermostat. If I do replace it, I'll get those too.

As for the cable. It is the actual plastic part that connects the cable to the sensor that broke. On each side of the break there are two metal rails surrounded by plastic. I was just thinking of putting the glue on the plastic and taping it on the outside to keep the rails connected. Sorry, about the terminology, they look like rails, like on a power plug. I dont know what they are called.
 
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Reply #7 - Nov 22nd, 2006 at 10:51pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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Quote:
Thanks.

Edit..........As for the cable. It is the actual plastic part that connects the cable to the sensor that broke. On each side of the break there are two metal rails surrounded by plastic. I was just thinking of putting the glue on the plastic and taping it on the outside to keep the rails connected. Sorry, about the terminology, they look like rails, like on a power plug. I dont know what they are called.


OK, I see. Yes that should work well enough. I wish Toyota and all others would put a good di-electric grease in the connetors so they don't seize over time. I also wish they would make a plastic that doesn't become brittle with age(Hmmm....sounds like our Fozzer  Grin ).
« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2006 at 7:32pm by Mushroom_Farmer »  
...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
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Reply #8 - Nov 23rd, 2006 at 12:33am
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Hehehe! I hope this is not a cooland leak though. Because in the Haynes manual it said once I remove the housing, coolant should spill, and it didn't. Although if the thermostat didn't open...

I ordered one anyways.

It says the thermostat is rated at 88 degrees celsius. I poured boiling water on it and it didn't open. How does that thing work anyways? Thermal expansion?

I should have probably checked if the hose from the radiator to the thermostat was cold.
 
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Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2006 at 7:17am

expat   Offline
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Quote:
It says the thermostat is rated at 88 degrees celsius. I poured boiling water on it and it didn't open. How does that thing work anyways? Thermal expansion?



The secret of the thermostat lies in the small cylinder located on the engine-side of the device. This cylinder is filled with a wax that begins to melt as the engine heats up.  A rod connected to the valve presses into this wax. When the wax melts, it expands significantly (wax happens to expand a lot as it is changes from a solid to a liquid in addition to expanding from the heat) and pushes the rod out of the cylinder, opening the valve.

Matt
 
PETA ... People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #10 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 4:27pm
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Replacing the thermostat didn't do anything. I still have the same problem, the hose from the radiator to the engine is cold, and it overheats. Could it be because the bleed air valve is in the wrong position? I put it in the same position as my old thermostat, however in the manual it said it has to face up.
 
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Reply #11 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 12:08am

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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Yeah, I'd turn it over. The sensing side goes toward the engine.  In my experience, the "v" shaped side is exposed(hose side).
 
...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
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Reply #12 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 12:11am

SkyNoz   Offline
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I had the same problem with my car, my thermostat wouldn't close nor open, causing the car to overheat etc. Wink Put a new one in, Fixed! Smiley
 
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Reply #13 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 1:03am
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
I could turn it over, but too bad I snapped the thermostat housing while putting it back on. Maybe that's why it is not working. I turned it on, it looked okay, I drove around the block a few times, and there appears to be a small leak.
 
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Reply #14 - Nov 27th, 2006 at 1:16pm

beaky   Offline
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Take a good look at the plumbing diagram in the Haynes book... then start prying up carpeting. You may very well have a leak, and it may very well be the heater core itself. If your vehicle is like mine, there's coolant present right up to the core inside the dashboard even when the heat is not turned on.

I had to bypass mine a while back...I had sort of smelled coolant, but attributed that to other problems which were causing overheating... lifted the carpet on the passenger side and- yikes!!

Not looking forward to replacing that core (the entire dash has to come apart). But I'd better do it soon...
 
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