Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Airbus Glitch (Read 1247 times)
Nov 9th, 2006 at 3:06pm

Gixer   Offline
Colonel
Lets go fly a kite!!

Posts: 1540
*****
 
I dont know if this has been brought up before but I have found a glitch on my Airbus. I noticed it whilst flying the Paris airshow demonstration.

The rudder on my Airbus does not work once in the air!! On the ground its fine and the wheel turns as well but once up nothing, the front wheel wont turn either.

Simple I thought. I bet auto rudder has turned itself on so off I go to check. Nope its not on, hmmmm. So I jump in every other aircraft and the rudder works fine in all of them except the Airbus ???

Is there something i am missing here? i would have thought I should be able to move the rudder or in real life is the rudder setup as automatic once flying???
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 3:12pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Colonel
I used to have a life;
now I have GMax!
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 962
*****
 
It's operating as designed.  The FBW (Fly-By-Wire) computers are controlling everything automatically.

If you bank left and apply a bit of left rudder pedal, the FBW computers will automatically control both ailerons and rudder...  You don't so much "fly" a FBW controlled aircraft as "tell it where to go..."  Grin
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 3:19pm

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
Even with fly-by-wire you still have control of the rudder.  You say you can't move the rudder at all while in the air?  Does it still cause the airplane to yaw, or does it not respond to inputs.  If it doesn't respond, you might have a snapped rudder control cable, and you should get that checked out by a mechanic. Lips Sealed Grin  Otherwise, I don't know why that would happen.

P.S.  The front wheel doesn't turn while you're in the air becuase it works on the same type of weight-on-wheels device that stops the gear from being retracted while they are supporting the aircraft.  If it didn't work this way, whenever you tried landing with a cross-wind, you would go shooting off to one side of the runway or the other whenever the nosewheel touched down. Wink
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 3:57pm

Gixer   Offline
Colonel
Lets go fly a kite!!

Posts: 1540
*****
 
I have no Yaw control what so ever  Sad

n4gix I can see what you are saying, however there is no rudder movement from the rudder at all even when using the aileron!!

Also you have to have seperate control of the rudder for cross wind landings.  Something is definately not right  Sad
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 4:18pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Colonel
I used to have a life;
now I have GMax!
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 962
*****
 
I know that there are different levels of control available during different flight regiemes (sp)... I am not all that knowledgable about the Airbus FBW system (especially the FSX implenentation!), since I have precisely ZERO interest in tubeliners... Wink

However, a brief squint at the Help/Learning Center might shed some light on FSX's version at least.
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 4:25pm

Nexus   Offline
Colonel
The greater of two evils...

Gender: male
Posts: 3282
*****
 
Quote:
It's operating as designed.  The FBW (Fly-By-Wire) computers are controlling everything automatically.

If you bank left and apply a bit of left rudder pedal, the FBW computers will automatically control both ailerons and rudder...  You don't so much "fly" a FBW controlled aircraft as "tell it where to go..."  Grin


The rudder is mechanicly linked on an Airbus, just as on a Boeing 737. The FBW involves Spoilers, Elevators and Ailerons.
Hence the names for the 5 FBW computers on the airbus

2x ELAC (ELevator and Aileron Computer)

3x SEC (Spoiler and Elevator Computer)

The airbus does however incorporate yaw dampers which eliminates the need for turn coordination with assistance by rudder inputs.
But then again, so does the 737  Roll Eyes

If you lose all electric signals from the FBW computers to the hydraulic motors, you will use the rudder for lateral control. (but that is highly unlikely)
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 4:33pm

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
I just did a little test flight, and I got the same results as Gixer.

Panel says full rudder deflection:
...

However, no rudder deflection:
...

Like Gixer, I found that the rudder doesn't work while in flight, however it does work on the ground, so maybe it could have accidentally been connected to the weight-on-wheels switch for the landing gear, becuase it doesn't seem to work whenever the nosewheel has no weight on it. Tongue
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 4:56pm

Gixer   Offline
Colonel
Lets go fly a kite!!

Posts: 1540
*****
 
Nexus, the 737's rudder works just fine  Grin

Glad it isnt just my sim though otherwise I would have to be tracking down what I had done wrong. Guess we will have to wait for an update before this issue is fixed!
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 10:33pm

Stormtropper   Offline
Colonel
Blueballed...!
Grosse Pointe, MI

Gender: male
Posts: 1645
*****
 
Hmm...I don't understand...I could've sworn that I was able to use the rudder before...

...I completed 2 missions, Rome-Naples and the Paris flight demo, the old fashioned way (couldn't figure out how to work the autopilot...I'm guessing this is why all Airbuses fail miserably Roll Eyes)...

...anyways, I hope MS fixes this quick.

Jeff Grin
 

Arizona State University&&Viva la party!
&&&&...
&&&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Nov 9th, 2006 at 11:36pm

drtomkat   Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
providence, RI

Gender: male
Posts: 107
*****
 
Quote:
I have no Yaw control what so ever  Sad

n4gix I can see what you are saying, however there is no rudder movement from the rudder at all even when using the aileron!!

Also you have to have seperate control of the rudder for cross wind landings.  Something is definately not right  Sad

im glad this is happening to you guys, because in real life the plane does that, i saw it on the dicovery channel they where doing a documentory about it.
and this happen to prevent accidents from pilot mistakes,what i hate about it is that you cant do a roll with it, other than that is normal for that plane to do that. my auto pilot work well with it i like it.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 1:25am

Gixer   Offline
Colonel
Lets go fly a kite!!

Posts: 1540
*****
 
But I cant see how it is normal?? If it were the case too when aileron is applied you would see the rudder move to counter act adverse yaw, but the rudder doesn't move one bit.

Sure you can still roll it as you have full aileron movement, nothing stops you from rolling the aircraft, you just cant yaw it.

As I said if you have a strong crosswind situation its going to be nigh on impossible to land without any yaw control available.

I am fully aware that FBW systems will more than likely not enable you to do things that will endanger the aircraft, however it is my belief that you should still have yaw control!!

The FBW system is there to aid things but the pilot should still be able to have yaw control of the aircraft. Think I will get googling when I get a free moment at work here to see if there is anything odd about this airbus. It just is weird why it all works when on the ground and not in the air.
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 1:35am

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
You absolutely should have rudder control, FBW or not, this is just a glitch in FSX.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 10:30am

loomex   Offline
Colonel
My 1969 Ludwig "pre-Bohnam"
with extra stuff
FAA Ident KITH

Gender: male
Posts: 1853
*****
 
how about making sure that you "advance animation" is clicked on
Just a thought Grin
 

Windows 7 Home Premium (x64) ,2.70 gigahertz AMD Phenom II X6 1045T(6-core), two HD (1TB and 500GB), 8gb RAM, ATI Radeon HD 5570,
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 11:00am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender: male
Posts: 12574
*****
 
Quote:
It's operating as designed.  The FBW (Fly-By-Wire) computers are controlling everything automatically.


Fly by wire isn't an automatic pilot. All it means is that instead of hydralics or mechanical links the surfaces are controled by electrics.

True FBW can be used to limit what can be done, and it no doubt makes autopilots simpler. But it doesn't take full control of the surfaces out of the pilots hands.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 11:04am

Ashar   Ex Member
Forza Lazio!!

Gender: male
*****
 
I've got a totally unrelated question...Does FSX have FMC? Roll Eyes
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #15 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 11:18am

ashaman   Offline
Colonel
I'm from Italy, errors
in my text are a given.
LIRN

Gender: male
Posts: 1752
*****
 
Are you people sure you haven't the yaw damper active on the airbus? If the YD is on and you try to move the rudder it's only normal you don't have any reaction.

Just an idea.
 

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb
IP Logged
 
Reply #16 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 11:19am

Nexus   Offline
Colonel
The greater of two evils...

Gender: male
Posts: 3282
*****
 
Quote:
Fly by wire isn't an automatic pilot. All it means is that instead of hydralics or mechanical links the surfaces are controled by electrics.


The surfaces on the Airbus are still manipulated by hydraulic motors, just as any other airliner.

But the means of transfering the control commands to the hydraulics are electrical, instead of mechanical.

Maybe that's what you meant, and then I apologize  Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #17 - Nov 10th, 2006 at 3:21pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Colonel
I used to have a life;
now I have GMax!
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 962
*****
 
Quote:
Fly by wire isn't an automatic pilot. All it means is that instead of hydralics or mechanical links the surfaces are controled by electrics.

True FBW can be used to limit what can be done, and it no doubt makes autopilots simpler. But it doesn't take full control of the surfaces out of the pilots hands.


Sorry, but that's simply incorrect.  FBW refers to the complete system, which includes the ELAC and SEC computers, the autopilot, autothrottle, control surfaces, actuating mechanisms, and control connections.
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
IP Logged
 
Reply #18 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 7:17am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender: male
Posts: 12574
*****
 
Quote:
The surfaces on the Airbus are still manipulated by hydraulic motors, just as any other airliner.

But the means of transfering the control commands to the hydraulics are electrical, instead of mechanical.

Maybe that's what you meant, and then I apologize  Smiley

I made my statement vague enough to allow for that one. I knew the control inputs were transfered by wire but I didn't know whether the surfaces were moved by electric motors or hydraulics.


Quote:
Sorry, but that's simply incorrect.  FBW refers to the complete system, which includes the ELAC and SEC computers, the autopilot, autothrottle, control surfaces, actuating mechanisms, and control connections.
Are you still maintaining that a FBW system takes control of certain surfaces completely out of the pilots hands?
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
IP Logged
 
Reply #19 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 2:10pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Colonel
I used to have a life;
now I have GMax!
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 962
*****
 
Quote:
Are you still maintaining that a FBW system takes control of certain surfaces completely out of the pilots hands?


I'm not "maintaining" a thing.  I rely instead on what the various manufacturers and engineers state...  

With the ready availablity of plethora information and technical articles on the web, there's absolutely no reason why anyone cannot be adequately informed on any subject... Shocked

"Boeing and Airbus differ in their FBW philosophies.
In Airbus aircraft, the computer always retains ultimate control and will not permit the pilot to fly outside the normal flight envelope.
In a Boeing 777, the pilot can override the system, allowing the plane to be flown outside this envelope in emergencies. The pattern started by Airbus A320 has been continued with the Airbus family and the Boeing 777."

Might I suggest the following as a good starting place to actually learn what the Airbus implementation of FBW is?

AIRBUS FlyByWire – How it really works

http://www.apollosoftware.com/products/FlyByWire/FlyByWire_english.pdf

The Wikipedia link is also a good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_flight_control_systems#Fly-by-wire

 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print