Well I spoke this week too a Royal Canadian Air Force pilot who also flew in the Royal Air Force while partaking in several beers at the Royal Canadian Legion about thirty-five minutes from us.

The gentleman was here visiting one of his sons (a pilot) now stationed at Canadian Forces Base Trenton.

We spoke for several hours about Tri-motor aircraft and Flying Boats.

The Tri-motor aircraft he seemed to have knowledge on and spoke highly of were:
(1) Italian..Savoia-Marchetti SM79
(2) German...Junkers JU 52
                 ...Fokker FV 11b
                 ...Dornier DO 24 Flying Boat
(3) American...Ford Tri-motor
                   ...Ford Bushmaster
He has time in the right seat (about two hours on each)on the Junkers JU 52 and a Ford Tri-motor and although not certified to fly either he was quite impressed about the three engine configuration.

I never asked and he never mentioned any three engine aircraft produced by Great Britain, Russia or Japan.

Can anyone contribute to the above list of Tri-motor aircraft as now my curiosity has the better of me?  

We also spoke about Flying Boats and Amphibians and myself being certified on the Canso I could hold my own on that.

The Flying Boats and Amphibians he spoke about were:
Great Britain...Supermarine Walrus Mark V Amphibian
                   ...Short Sunderland
                   ...Saunders Roe Princess Flying Boat
                       (3 built only 1 flew) according to him
United States...Consolidated Amphibian Catalina 111
                     ...Gruman Albatross
Japan...Kawanishi H8K Flying Boat
Germany...Dornier DO 24

He never mentioned and I never asked about any Flying Boats or Amphibians produced by Russia or Italy.

Our conversation on Flying Boats/Amphibians led to many questions from curious bystanders at our table as to why the successful Short Sunderland was not turned into an Amphibian Aircraft like the Gruman Albatross rather than using beaching gear.

The only answer the two of us could conceive was the wrong folks controlled the budget and just like today they have no idea on what the folks in uniform require.

Many a good piece of kit has gone down the tubes or the wrong kit purchased because of fools in three piece suits!  

I never mentioned it as I am not quite sure, so someone here can help me out.
Was it Japan or Russia that produced a large military Flying Boat/Amphibian during the late 1960s or early 1970s for military use?

If anyone else can add to the list of Amphibian Flying Boats or Flying Boats from any Country please feel free to contribute as it will be much appreciated.  

The old girl and I did invite this gentleman, his son and family to our home for a luncheon at their convenience however his son declined as his dad was flying back to the East Coast of Canada on Friday which was yesterday.

Myself, I don't think this young suck and blow driver (jet jockey   ) wanted his father and I together as all we talked about was aircraft.      

Although they were only passing through and on their way back to Canadian Forces Base Trenton their company was enjoyed by our little gathering at the Royal Canadian Legion, oh what a wonderful world this is.  

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

There were some pre war Italian flying boats. All looking fairly like the Supermarine Walrus with the hull beneith biplane wings with the engines slung between. They all look rather fragile though. I think actually they may have been copys of other Supermarine designs.

As for british Trimotors, I personally cannot think of an example. And Russia and Japan I have no idea of, though I think you'd be surprised what a brief search brought up.

On the subject of "amphibians" vs "flying boats", you may want to consider that the Chinese HAMC (Harbin Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation) SH-5  (Westernized PS-5) is a four engined (turboprops) martitime patrol and ASW flying boat with retractable beaching gear, not strictly "landing"  gear.

THen there's the Shin Meiwa SS-2A amphibian....

OF course, these are but two (modern) of the many flying boats / amphibians designed and built over the years.

THink of anything by Curtiss (pre-WW1)  the Boeing and Martin Clippers, Consolidated Commodore,  the Felixstowe 'boats, just about anything by Supermarine (other than the Spit, and even that got floats put on - and post WW2 offerings), Shorts, Fairey....

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Aside from the Swordfish, which did have floats attached, I wasn't aware of a great flying boat history with Fairey. I mean, Shorts and Supermarine were major flying boat companies, hence the marine in the name of Supermarine. Fairey on the other hand, as far as I'm aware were builders of aeroplanes with wheels.

There were of course though two branches of Fairey. Fairey Aviation and Fairey Marine. But each branch seemed to stick to their titles, Aviation made planes, Marine made boats.

(Inless of course you want to count Uffa Fox's airbourne lifeboat. )


Edit: Forgot about the Fairey Seafox. But, that and the Swordfish with floats were floatplanes, not flying boats as the topic is on. Details details...

I can think of one British tri-motor offhand. I'm sure there are more.

The Airspeed AS.4 Ferry.

Note that this example is powered by two upright Gipsy II & a single inverted Gipsy III in the centre.

I believe four were built, two being supplied to Sir Alan Cobham's 'Flying Circus' to his own specification for a general purpose & pleasure flying aircraft. http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/airspeed%20as4%20ferry.htm A point of interest; the famous author Neville Shute (Norway) was Joint Managing Director of Airspeed Ltd when it was first formed in 1931.

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One example is still airworthy although it's been updated with modern turbprop engines. It has also been converted from a pure flying boat into an amphibian. http://www.do-24.com/
I was lucky enough to see the Do 24ATT two years ago at the 2004 Battle of Britain weekend at Biggin Hill where I got some reasonable photos of this unique aircraft, some in formation with the Plane Sailing Canso. I posted them in the Photos forum at the time & will look them out if anyone's interested. Here's one to be going on with.


It was demonstrated by Iren Dornier, grandson of Dr. Claude Dornier himself.

PS. Just thought of another one. Not British but loosely based on the DH.104 Dove.The DHA-3 Drover.  http://www.hars.org.au/fleet/drover/index.html

More British tri-motors (in date order):

Handley Page W8F Hamilton (1924) & W9 Hampstead. 10 - 12 passenger airliner operated by Imperial Airways and Sabena. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_W8

De Havilland DH.66 Hercules. First flew in 1926. Pioneered several Imperial Airways long-distance routes. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/d...

Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. This is the original 1926 model - not to be confused with the much later "Whistling Wheelbarrow". http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/a...

Westland Wessex (1928 ). This is the original airliner - not the more well-known helicopter. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/w...

Avro 618 Ten (1929). This is the British licence-buit version of the Fokker Fokker F.VIIB/3m. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/a...

3-engined flying boat:

Short S8 Calcutta (1926). http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/S...

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We seem to have posted at about the same time. You might be thinking of the Handley Page W8 series. See my previous link above.

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Fairey was originally better known for seaplanes built at its base at Hamble. http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/airfields/ham.html

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I found a couple of Fairey flying boats but lost the link now. Wish I could be more specific. The history of the early days of Fairey Aviation seems a little obscure.

I don't think the flying boats need to be tri-motors. That must deserve a bonus.

Another British tri-motor. I forgot the Spartan Cruiser. http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/SPARTAN%20CRUISER.htm

Gentlemen...Thank you one and all. 

I shall be a bit busy now looking up the sites that you posted.
I know for a fact some of these aircraft I have never heard of. 

The weather here is rain mixed with a wet snow.
The barn and hangar are buttoned down and everything here is ship shape Bristol fashion. 

The clocks went back a hour last night and the old girl is on her way to church.
I did not go to church as I know the good Lord would want me to check out these sites you all posted right away. 

Thanks everyone.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Thanks Doug...shall get on it shortly. 

I was watching a yacht about 40 foot trying to make it around the bend in the river here.
With the winds gusting to close to 50 mph at times and the water current he seemed to be having a bad time of it. 
We have rain mixed with wet snow and there are white caps on the river, I would say the waves are close to two or three feet high.
I would have thought a yacht that size would have at least two engines and lots of power.
I could see the spray coming over his bow as he was trying to make the turn, he finally made it.

Thanks for the sites. 

Cheers...Happy landings...Doug

Hi Woodlouse 2002...

Nope it was not a sail boat but an approximately 40 Foot
motorized yacht.  

I think he was inexperienced on the river or he misread the wind and current.  Travelling by boat on the river is not the same as travelling on a bay or lake.
Many a good seaplane pilot has learned that as well!  

While we are on this subject though I would like to add that many here on unaware about the effects of the current and wind on flying boats or seaplanes.

A seaplane (an aircraft on floats/amphibious floats) can be sailed with both doors open/closed, one door open, flaps up or down, water rudders down, engine on/off, the use of ailerons, the use of passengers/crew on a float and many more techniques.

A flying boat like an aircraft on floats/amphibious floats also requires skilled techniques which are not quickly learned over night.
A Flying Boat Captain like his landbased counterpart or seafaring counterpart is a highly experience person in both realms.

There are a lot of books out there now on Float and Flying Boat Flying.  They contain a lot a valuable informatin and techniques, too many to  mention here.
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Hi Doug! Interesting read!

The Russian Water plane you mentioned might be the Ekranoplane or look here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6HQSNERadQ

technically it aint a plane but on might classify it as such.

About the Japanese amphibs I couldn't think of much more that the Kawanishi " Mavis"

http://www.vectorsite.net/avemily.html


Hope it helps a bit

Ow yeah an italian company which did much with seaplanes is  Savoia Marchetti

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Here in England I don't know how big a boat you can get before you need any sort of qualifications to drive it but you do have rather a large boat before you do.

Pretty much all of my experience afloat has been coastal sailing so I don't know the finer points of tackling rivers and can't really comment further intill I know what sort of river you're refering to (as in a wide estuary or narrows).

I wouldn't worry about taking the topic off course either. I could talk boats all night if I had to.

Here in England for an average sized boat (under 60 feet certainly) you need no qualifications to command it privately. And long may it last. The RYA is constantly bickering with the government to keep it that way and so far they've succeeded. To get an RYA certificate of competence you just have to join the RYA and pay a £30 subscription.

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The only time it changes is if you're making money out of it. Then you need a few minor qualifications, or major qualifications depending on how serious your sailing is. Other than that you are free to own and use any normal sized yacht or motorboat you can get your hands on.

As I said we have the RYA to thank for that. They spend huge amounts of time talking to the folk who make the rules making sure that the sea is avaliable to everyone. At the moment their biggest battle is stopping the EU from putting road tax on our marine diesel.

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I also remember seeing the two cocooned at Calshot from the Isle of Wight ferry when I was a lad. According to this they were all broken up in the 1960s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saro_Princess

PS. I also saw one demonstrated at the Farnborough Air Show in 1952. That seems an awful long time ago now.

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In a perfect world yes. Unfortunately these were very large aircraft & land is at a premium. Unless it had been left in its cocooned state it would have soon deteriorated outside in the elements.

PS. Sadly the BA exibits at the RAF Museum Cosford are the latest victims & some have already been broken up. http://experts.about.com/e/r/ra/raf_museum.htm

This article on the Blackburn Beverley is a familiar story & shows the problems with displaying large aircraft in this country. http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk/blackburn/beverley/Beverley.htm Quote:

Hi folks: 

Many of us have discussed this at many different meetings and we all agreed that "Museums" are a part of our heritage and are a wonderful "Educational" tool, not just for the young, but everyone.

It is too bad our political leaders cover their heads in red tape and only remove it when they want a raise! 

I do remember seeing an aircraft and I think it was a flying boat (just can't remember) and they were testing a hydrofoil type of landing gear on it.
I don't recall the company or country that was doing that or what ever came of the idea.

Cheers....Happy Landings....Doug

Hi Doug: 

Nope I remember that one. 

I wonder did someone try fitting a C130 "Herc" like an aircushion vehicle for landing on water, mud, snow, grass and hard surfaces?

The next time I am down at Canadian Forces Base Trenton I will ask at SPAR as I believe that is where I saw a picture or heard a story about it.
That is why I was thinking about a Flying Boat as that is what it looked like.
Those fellas at SPAR are all retired Royal Canadian Air Force, Canadian Forces and a mixed bag of everything else.
They work for the Canadian Military and have locations everywhere.  They have three in this immediate area and two are at Military Bases.
I am sure their techniques are also employed by the RCAF Memorial Museum on occassions and they have helped me out many times with odd little jobs.

I shall look into this when I get down there as that is the only place I can think of. 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Is this what you're thinking of? 8) http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft7X/FRHeft75/FRH7501/FR7501c.htm

Wow some very interesting reading/sites there folks...thank you very much. 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Sad news indeed on the Martin Mars. The Saro Princess was considerably larger although it never went into production. Only one of the three prototypes ever flew.

Copied from Wikipedia:

Thanks for the information and replies. 

I don't think the day of the large Flying Boat is over yet, I think they will make a come back, but they will be amphibious, with loading ramps side and rear when they do.
I have also heard talk about them being either jet or they will have counter rotating propellers.

Time will tell. 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

So far out here, all is still quiet Doug........silence is golden as far as this subject is concerned........

Latest word on the Mars......sorry to say it, but it seems that there is a possibility that the two may be off to the mainland.......last nights news on TV had a report that they may be heading to a new permanent base in the Okanagan.....mainland mountain region........ .......its not final, but is all I've heard so far..............

...........will keep reporting........

Word just in............friend of mine visited them today..........got images which I will forward asap.......

..........possible that one may stay in the area, and one may wind up going to birthplace for a museum piece.........could be only a rumor, but I intend to get more info by whatever means I can come by.........