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Certified pilot question (Read 2458 times)
Sep 23rd, 2006 at 7:44am

Cessna156   Offline
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I am contemplating flight instruction from a few nearby flight schools. Is there a website that provides information on certifications that a pilot has?

 
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Reply #1 - Sep 23rd, 2006 at 11:16am

Mobius   Offline
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Are you wondering if there is a website that lists what pilot has what ratings?  If so, then I don't know, but I doubt it.  If you're wondering about a certain instructor, you could just ask what ratings they have.  Good luck with your training. Wink
 

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Reply #2 - Sep 23rd, 2006 at 11:26am

garymbuska   Offline
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I suggest you ask the instructer for his/her logbook. This should have a entry in it as to when they completed the test for instructer. If they do not want to show you than they are more than likely not FAA certified. With the name of the pilot I would imagine the FAA could verify there status. I am not aware of a website that lists all pilots as this might be senestive information.
 
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Reply #3 - Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:31pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The FAA does keep a public registry that can be accessed by anyone, but a pilot can request to not be on it.

If the instructor you're questioning is already "working" at an FBO or flight school; it's safe to assume he's more than legit. The company that insures the school/FBO will see to that... as will the owner(s) of the planes leased to them.

 
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Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2006 at 3:04pm

Cessna156   Offline
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Thanks for the quick responses to all.

Certainly a direct questions is a good idea, but sometimes schools list their instructors without giving background. Was just hoping to do review what I could ahead of time.

Cessna
 
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Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2006 at 6:27pm

Mobius   Offline
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That's one of the things about pilots: if they're still flying or not dead, than they probably not the worst pilot around. Grin Wink
 

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Reply #6 - Sep 24th, 2006 at 8:03am

Cessna156   Offline
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About a year ago I was able to find a site that gave me the certifications of a certain instructor that worked out of a local school. I had to know his registration? number to get the information. It was probably an FAA site. This year, however, I cannot locate any site that even asks for a registration number.

Cessna
 
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Reply #7 - Sep 24th, 2006 at 7:23pm

Drake_TigerClaw   Offline
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Actually that public record, I dont think you can not be on it if I understand what the form said. But you can request to have your adress unlisted.
 

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Reply #8 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 7:11am

beaky   Offline
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What exactly are you looking for? Proof that a given instructor is really a CFI? If so, you can almost certainly rest assured that the school has already checked on that. Wink


But if that's not satisfactory, if you do find a list of pilots and their certifications, you may not find any information that cross-references them to a particular flight school, so I'm not sure how this would help you, unless you get all the instructors' names first.

If you just want to know if said instructor is a good instructor, locate a student at the school you're interested in, and ask the student. Warning: answers may vary from student to student... Grin


For what it's worth, I'd sooner want to see the aircraft's books than the instructor's... Grin
 

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Reply #9 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 7:26pm

Cessna156   Offline
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That'sinteresting. Why would th e aircraft's books be more important?

Cessna
 
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Reply #10 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 7:38pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
That'sinteresting. Why would th e aircraft's books be more important?

Cessna

I would think that's fairly obvious. Some aircraft are better maintained than others.

Things have changed a lot since I was learning to fly. In those days instructing was seen as an honourable profession but nowadays it seems to be a stop-gap until something better comes along. At least, I get the impression that's how it is in the US.
 

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Reply #11 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 8:51pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Unfortunately, that's how it is. About the only way a non-military, budding airline pilot is going to get his bare-minimun 1200 hours without having to borrow $100,000.. is to get them from the right seat, instructing.

Entry-level pilot salary is so low.. It's just not worth making that kind of investment.
 
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Reply #12 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 11:56pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
That'sinteresting. Why would th e aircraft's books be more important?

Cessna

My point, I suppose, is that there are more lousy flight-school planes out there than lousy instructors... at least that's been my personal impression.

It's not a bad idea to at least ask to see the maintenence logs for a plane you're thinking of renting... if they refuse to show them, or make some fishy excuse, go somewhere else.

As for the instructors, even an outfit that skimps on maintenance will check out prospective CFIs pretty thoroughly.
New CFIs are a dime a dozen, and they don't stay long, generally- employers can afford to be picky.

  I wouldn't worry about their qualifications- it's more important to hook up with a teacher who's a good match to your needs and personality. And an impressive resume doesn't mean much until you fly with this person and see what they're really like as a teacher.

To further illustrate my point regarding average quality of CFIs vs. average quality of aircraft maintenance:
I once met a young, hungry CFI who had abruptly quit his first flying job, with a small flight school, after he saw the owner of the school out on the ramp straightening the prop on a trainer-with a hammer-  while it was still attached to the airplane...
Grin
 

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Reply #13 - Sep 26th, 2006 at 6:46am

Cessna156   Offline
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This is an interesting discussion. The stop- gap theory until something else comes along is in my experience too. I personally know two instructors who have moved on to steady jobs with airlines/private companies in favor of their instructing. One bit of  advice I read somewhere was to ask an instructor what his goals were for the long term - to see whether or not he was planning to be around for a while.

There is probably truth in the poorly maintained aircraft theory too. Problem is, a fledgling pilot wouldn't know what to look for in reading the maintenance log (at least I don't think I would).

Cessna
 
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Reply #14 - Sep 26th, 2006 at 9:37am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
This is an interesting discussion. The stop- gap theory until something else comes along is in my experience too. I personally know two instructors who have moved on to steady jobs with airlines/private companies in favor of their instructing. One bit of  advice I read somewhere was to ask an instructor what his goals were for the long term - to see whether or not he was planning to be around for a while.

There is probably truth in the poorly maintained aircraft theory too. Problem is, a fledgling pilot wouldn't know what to look for in reading the maintenance log (at least I don't think I would).

Interesting indeed. It would be very frustrating to find an instructor that suits you only for them to move on after a couple of lessons.

You can usually tell how well an aircraft is maintained just by looking at it. It's not so much the age that matters but general cleanliness, condition of tyres & things like that.
 

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Reply #15 - Sep 26th, 2006 at 11:32am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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There's a mixed blessing when to comes to club / flight-school planes.

Yes.. they get their share of use.. But they're also, regularly scrutinized by a goodly number of pilots; and by the nature of training flights.. safety issues rarely go un-noticed.
 
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Reply #16 - Sep 26th, 2006 at 9:13pm

beaky   Offline
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I don't mean to disparage FBO/flight school maintenance in general-
I guess my main point was that  the planes offer more unpleasant surprises than the instructors, on average. At least that's based on my experience: 5 instructors and about 6 or so different aircraft during my 2 years working on my PPL... liked some instructors more than others, but felt they were qualified to teach, regardless of what their resumes might have said.
As Hagar noticed, the annoyance of high CFI turnover is the biggest problem I had with that school... cost me hours of review, and yes, I lost a couple that I really clicked with, and had to adjust to a few that were not quite "on my wavelength".
  I'd advise a PPL hopeful who can't knock out the whole syllabus in a cuple of months to find a retired person or career instructor who will stick with you- young CFIs eager to jump off to the next rung on the ladder are often excellent pilots and instructors, but they don't stick around long.

On the other hand, as far as the aircraft go, during that period I had:
One starter failure
One smoking transponder
Two incidences of finding tools under the cowl or clamped to the cowl
One badly damaged brake line (noticed, fortunately, pre-flight)
Numerous radio and intercom problems
One landing light failure (the one time I arrived solo at sunset, of course)
Missing aileron balance weights
Inop flaps
Inop vacuum systems
Useless nosewheel shimmy dampers, usually coupled with badly worn tires and underinflated struts

... that's the ones I remember offhand...but my point is made.

We have to bear in mind, of course, that these are not things you'd find out about, necessarily, by looking at the maint. logs, but I mention doing so mostly because if the aircraft owner or operator is reluctant to produce them, you should walk away (or run, maybe).
  Doesn't matter if you know how to interpret the data- they should be willing to reveal all
If they won't, consider that a "red flag".
 

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Reply #17 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 5:44am

Hagar   Offline
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Fascinating. What qualifications does a CFI* (Certified Flight Instructor) need?

*PS. This used to confuse me no end. CFI means Chief Flying Instructor in this country. That makes a big difference. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #18 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 7:28am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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A Certified Flight Instructor's qualifications need to be broken down backwards.

Even this link  http://www.gleim.com/aviation/flight_ground/fgreqs.php ; doesn't give the whole picture. For example.. it just quickly mentions that one of the first requirements is a commercial or ATP rating. Those in themselves are rather involved accomplishments. A commercial rating itself has, as a bare minimum, 250 hours.

Basically.. A CFI is an instrument and commercially rated pilot; demonstrating a certification and aptitude for teaching; having passed appropriate written, oral and practical testing.

There's no doubt in my mind that path to CFI-dom has evolved into something that accommodates those using it as a step along the way to some other flying career. Ideally, it should be a viable career choice on its own. Unfortunately, it is not.
 
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Reply #19 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 7:55pm

beaky   Offline
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First I've heard of the FOI...how do you obtain that?

Instructing is a logical time-builder, but it is sad how it is often just a stepping stone.
That wouldn't be too bad if every school were required to have a Head Flight Instructor who was a career instructor or who had come back to it.
I think regardless of the subject, teaching is the most important task there is.  Doing is important, but good teaching of those who will do makes all the difference.
It's shameful how bad most teachers have it.

On a side note: looking back, I remember that some of my instructors didn't quite fit the stereotype: My first wanted only to fly island-hoppers in the Caribbean (hope he's there right now- what a nice guy!), and the one after him had to quit to go help run the family business. The rest were bucking for "the corner office"- left seat on an international line, flying the big iron. Some of the others at that school were so hungry for hours (and money), they'd steal other CFI's blocks in the schedule book: more than once I'd show up for a lesson, only to find that somebody had scratched out me and my instructor and inserted his own lesson. Cute. The worst was probably the oldest guy there... desperate, I guess. Roll Eyes
My favorite instructor (who soloed me) had an interesting path: he was also a mechanic for the school (very comforting on my dual flights with him in some of those old rattlers!), and his career goal was to fly for missionary groups in the bush somewhere. He and I parted ways when they closed shop at N07, and I went back to KTEB to finish up. Not sure where he went to, but I'm certain he is either flying mercy missions above jungles full of rebel armies and poisonous snakes, or is well on his way... and loving every minute.
  That's probably why he was my favorite- he had a very relaxed and thorough approach to exploring the edges of the envelope, and making every decision and action count for maximum efficiency and gain... and he just plain loved airplanes and flying.
He was also never easy on me but always calm, patient  and focused thoroughly on flying the airplane.
 

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Reply #20 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 8:52pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'll bet there's an interesting story about how FOI made it into the requirements. It is logical, as you'd be a "teacher", and governments love their paperwork and certificates.  I've heard the test isn't any more difficult than any other, FAA writen exam. You gotta admit, they have a "civil service test" air to them.

I was a substitute teacher at a community college, right after graduating. I just called up the office and asked them to re-certify me, as if I'd be coming back to substitute again. That info on the college's' letter-head let me skip the FOI test.

I wish I had accurate (and fond) memories of my very first instructor. Iwas all of 19. He ran a slip-shot little operation in Escanaba, Michigan. His son still operates a private, grass strip on their property, just outside of Gladstone. He might even be dead now.. Last time I heard anything about him.. was when he flew drunk and landed on the freeway near the airport  Roll Eyes

The instructors (and the guy who ended up being my mentor) I've met, flying out of KOSU have been wonderful. Ohio State University runs their Aviation Department out of that airport. In fact.. they RUN the airport. Most all the instructors that filter through the three clubs at KOSU, are fresh graduates from OSU's Aviation Program. High standards permeate the whole area; and it's a very tight fraternity. It's actually the busiest airport in Ohio, as far as take-offs and landings go. There are also two medivac operations there; and several corporate hangars. I'd guess that there are at least a dozen corporate jets based there. Even the tower guys are part of the "gang". Our club lets them access the internet via our wireless router so they can keep themselves entertained on slow nights.

The instructor who got me through my instrument rating ended up taking a job flying a Rockwell Commander for a company that does USGS, aerial photography. One of HIS instructors flies a Citation for Honda (won't be a Citation for long   Wink  ). The day I passed my instrument checkride, we got to go sit in that Citation and just talk pilot stuff (I got left seat in honor of my new rating).

Sorry.. got  to rambling...  Embarrassed
 
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