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How do I find an instructor? (Read 367 times)
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 10:37am
Chris_F
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My birthday is coming up and I was thinking of unique gifts to ask for. My wife has a hard time shopping for me since it seems I already have everything. So I was thinking I'd like to ask for flying lessons. The one problem though is I don't have a clue where to start. The nearest airport to me is MHT, a bit busy for my tastes. I don't want to be jostling with 737s for runway time on my first ever flight.
ASH is about half an hour away from my home and I'm sure they give lessons there. There's a college which has a pilot curriculum there (Daniel Webster), but I don't want to go through something that formal.
Basically I want to give flying lessons a try and the furthest I really want to go is to be able to solo. I don't have a lot of interest in getting a lisence, I'm just doing this for the fun of it. Couldn't afford to do this on a regular basis anyway.
I think what I'm looking for is an instructor who works on his own, not part of a formal program or school. I'd like someone I can take lessons from now and then when I have the time/money and not worry about keeping on some sort of timeline or working to some sylabus. How do I find something like this?
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Reply #1 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 11:49am
Mobius
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I'd say if you're willing to drive to KASH, go there (or the closest airport like it), and talk to the people at the FBO desk. It looks like they have flight training available at the field, here's a link to the information on GFW Aeroservices, which seems to be the people who give flight training there.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KASH/GFW
You should be able to go there and tell them you want to take an introductory flight, and they'll take you up and you can continue your training if you want, otherwise I'm sure you could just go every now and then and ask to take a ride with an instructor. They won't pressure you to take lessons, and if you do take lessons, it will be at your own pace, you can choose to get your license in a couple of weeks, or ten years, it's all up to you.
Good luck, and remember to have buckets of fun, and take a camera.
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Reply #2 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 2:15pm
Brett_Henderson
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If you lived in Central Ohio.. or Upper Michigan.. I'd suggest........
ME !
Seriously though.. KASH looks like a good place to start. It's not a commercial hub, but it does have a control tower. Too many people start at uncontrolled airports and never end up getting 100% comfortable talking to ATC..
www.beapilot.com
lists five "flight schools" for Nashua. It won't take you long to find the instructor you're looking for. Just tell'em what you've said here.
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Reply #3 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 2:18pm
Mobius
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Quote:
Too many people start at uncontrolled airports and never end up getting 100% comfortable talking to ATC..
Like me.
I'll take a refresher lesson in the next couple of months though, because it's really starting to bug me. So like Brett said, if you learn at a controlled airport, it's all the better.
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Reply #4 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 3:43pm
beaky
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1/2 hour commute for lessons is just about right for a busy adult.
I don't know that area, but if you really want to go with an independent CFI, and just want to get to solo, you might want to consider an uncontrolled field in the area...There's one up at Concord (CON) and west of you there's Hawthorne-Feather(8B1) near Hillsborough.
It's just less of a hassle at an uncontrolled field, and if you're not going to get your PPL, there's not much reason to fly at a towered field.
And you can do what you want, but I'd advise you to at least consider the Sport or Recreational tickets as a compromise...twenty hours is not as small a commitment as you may think, and rather than do half the PPL then realize you'd really like to go further, with the Sport you'd be done at 20 hours (minimum), and you'd be all set for fun flying as a real pilot. Might be hard to find an LSA for rent, but I bet you could find or form a partnership.
http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/students/includes/moreinfoprint.cfm?page=recpri
I'm curious: if your plan is to follow the PPL curriculum until solo, then what? No mor flying? Flying only with a CFI aboard, or getting a sign-off for solo hops around the pattern? Just wondering. If you have no plan beyond that, you might want to stop and come up with one, particularly the alternatives described above.
More advice: you can avoid these questions from me, but I guarantee any serious instructor will want answers to the same questions before he or she flies with you, or at least before they sign you off to solo. So do alittle research and think it over.
To find an independent CFI, other than just hanging around airports asking people or putting up flyers (go right ahead- most FBOs have a bulletin board; just don't do it at a flight school
), you might consider getting a membership in EAA and/or AOPA and putting the word out on their forums.
http://www.aopa.org/
http://www.eaa.org/
Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!
PS- if you have abandoned the idea of getting your PPL (or PSL or RPL) because of time, money, or diffculty, think again... I had the cards stacked against me on all three counts (I had no money, I was working a lot, and was already an "old man" in my 30s and not terribly bright or disciplined to begin with), and I made it regardless.
It was rough, but I just kept my eyes on the prize. The other thing that motivated me highly was hearing that behind my back, a friend had said "he'll never make it!"
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Reply #5 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 4:33pm
Brett_Henderson
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It was nearly a flame-war .. but I can't bite my tongue..
I'm all for light, easy to fly, affordable aircraft; but I'm still not for 20 hour pilots.. never will be.
I posted a quote the last time this topic came up; He's a writer for Flying magazine and published aviation author/expert... and my "mentor" (a 20,000+ hour pilot) agrees with him.
"Looking at recent experience with these airplanes, and given the relatively minimum training to be required, it appears that if a lot of people are attracted to light sport flying, we could have an aeronautical slaughter of epic proportions. The only way to avoid that would be with a training program that I don’t think anybody can envision being possible, especially in 20 hours"
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Reply #6 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 4:41pm
Brett_Henderson
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Here's a link to the article...
http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=619&print_page=y
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Reply #7 -
Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 10:00pm
beaky
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Quote:
It was nearly a flame-war .. but I can't bite my tongue..
I'm all for light, easy to fly, affordable aircraft; but I'm still not for 20 hour pilots.. never will be.
I posted a quote the last time this topic came up; He's a writer for Flying magazine and published aviation author/expert... and my "mentor" (a 20,000+ hour pilot) agrees with him.
"Looking at recent experience with these airplanes, and given the relatively minimum training to be required, it appears that if a lot of people are attracted to light sport flying, we could have an aeronautical slaughter of epic proportions. The only way to avoid that would be with a training program that I don’t think anybody can envision being possible, especially in 20 hours"
I know, I know...
But better that, than taking the PPL curriculum only up to the first solo, and... what? Stopping? only flying dual? Only flying solo locally with a sign-off?
The thing that might best suit Chris would be to get the SPL and get into ultralights or fair-weather, local fun flying in Cubs and whatnot. Like you, I heartily I encourage him to pursue a "real" pilot's license, but it'd be a shame to see him start and then just stop.
As for the potential for an "aeronautical slaughter" due to an increase in "20-hr pilots", I think we should consider 2 things:
First, not everybody will get it in 20 hrs, just as hardly anybody gets their PPL in 40. I don't envy a CFI who has to figure out a way to turn loose a pilot with only 20-40 hrs, but I don't think it's beyond any consideration.
Second, there have been pilots with minimal training and no medical flying ultralights for a long time now, and their safety record, as far as I know, is no worse than that for PPs in certified aircraft.
The author of that article compares recent 4-seater accident rates with those for 2-seaters 50 years ago...interesting, but I fail to see what that has to do with a 21st-century SP program.
That article, while seeking to squash the notion of the SP rating as an apparent return to the "bad old days" by quoting accident stats for Cubs and Kitfoxes, almost supports the argument in favor of the SP rating: hardly anybody is getting stall/spin training, the real kind, in planes over the SP weight limit nowadays...
I didn't, really- never saw more than 1/2 turn of a real spin, and the young CFI who offered to show that to me (in a 172) was more nervous about it than I was (probably because it was a high-time rental with many taining hours on it). I'm very leery of stalling the 152, concentrating much more on "recognition and recovery" but often practice full stalls, even power-ons with bank, in the 172. I developed that habit on my own, because stalls in both types were demonstrating only begrudgingly during my training. I've made my share of bad approaches, but have yet to stall inadvertently, in the pattern or anywhere else, because I've taken the time to explore the envelope at altitude. So far, in a manner of speaking, my good judgement has kept me safer than my training, at least as far as that is concerned.
And while it is certainly true that low-and-slow flying invites disaster especially when the pilot makes the same foolish assumption that laymen do (that low and slow is safer than high and fast), the number of fatal wx-related accidents in heavier aircraft piloted by PPs and even IFR-rated PPs and CPs is alarmingly high to me... it's still the #1 cause of fatal accidents in all aviation, across the board, despite the quantum leaps in training, wx assessment, and technology over the last 50 years.
Weigh that against the prospect of a pilot signed off after 20 hours to fly locally in good weather in an old Champ or a Kitfox he built himself, and I'm not sure how well the argument holds up.
A dumb mistake is a dumb mistake, whether the pilot is flying a powered parachute or an Mu2. Has very little to do with the number of hours or the quality of the instruction. We all know that deep down inside: low-timers like me, midrange CFIs like you, and old hands like your mentor.
I just read about a recent King Air accident in which the pilot, who had thousands of hours total and hundreds of IFR multi hours, reached his final fix over 1000 feet too high on a nonprecision approach in hard IMC at a mountain airport and going for it anyway.... he flew right into a mountain beyond the airport, shortly after realizing he'd blown right past it and decided he'd declare a missed approach. Was his training inadequate, or did he just make a bad call? I don't have any multi time and only 4 hours under the hood, but I know that what he did was stupid. Easy to play armchair QB on tales like that, but I challenge anyone to prove to me that somehow his judgement was sound because he had the requisite hours to be in that situation legally.
Given the limitations imposed on Sport pilots, I'm not too worried about this kind of pilot.
Better to be in a very light, slow airplane in the pattern or near the field every weekend because you can afford it, than to hop in a 172 or Arrow once every 90 days and go on X-Cs because that's all you can afford, but you want to be a "real" pilot.
Maybe the statistics would prove me wrong, but that makes sense to me. I laid off flying for almost 4 years continuously because I knew I wouldn't be able to go up often enough to be safe. I'm not taking you or your obviously-qualified mentor to task, but I'm not so sure the SPL is cause for alarm... not in every case, anyway.
But I would certainly encourage anyone interested in flying to pursue the full program- they'd be better off no matter what sort of flying they intend to do. that's a given.
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Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 11:23pm
Brett_Henderson
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You make excellent points, and I agree with all of them. And obviously the powers that be, do too; because this sport pilot thing is happening.
I just never liked the idea. I like the idea of these planes now being produced by major manufacturers; and I REALLY like the idea of getting more people into flying; and making it more affordable for everyone. I just wish there was a way to do it other than cutting back on training that is already inadequate.
The perfect compromise is right there in front of everyone. The rental rates on these planes are going to save quite a bit going in. Another 20 hours of dual time isn't that big a deal. And how many more actual dual hours will it end up being ? These aren't endeavors to be penny-pinching. I would HOPE the average sport pilot is going to have WAY more than the 20 hours under his belt before taking a passenger up anyway (though to me, therein lies part of the problem.. by definition these people are trying to short-cut their way into the air).. meaning it's really just a handful of instructor hours, as he'd be flying the plane anyway; getting confident in his experience level, pre-passenger flights.
It's not only a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.. It creates potential problems (not to mention another layer of paperwork for the FAA to wallow in).
I'm not going to argue or debate it, because I've already lost the argument. I just feel compelled to say something when it's brought up.
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Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 11:30pm
Chris_F
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Regarding why I'm only interested in soloing:
I'm trying not to limit myself too much by setting an expectation. Maybe I'll be happy with one or two lessons, maybe soloing won't satisfy me and I'll keep on going until I get a PPL. I've been flying MSFS since version 1 came out and would like to experience what real flying is all about. But I have no idea when I'll be satisfied that I have enough experience, I'm primarily interested in learning, not just doing (and the best way to learn is by doing).
I do think however that I should give a prospective instructor some idea of what I have for goals. It's hard to express specifically what I'm looking for, which is basically that I want to learn enough to be satsified that I've learned enough. Where "enough" is is hard to guess, but I'm thinking "enough" is the point at which I can solo. I'll have a clearer picture when I get to that point.
So when I approach and instructor who asks me what my goals are, I'll say something like "I'm not really sure, I'd like to get to the point where I can solo then decide if a PPL is right for me". At this point though I'm not going in with the expectation of getting a PPL.
Since my primary goal is learning I don't have a vision of what I want to do with my experience beyond that. Maybe I'll want to fly regularly but it's more likely I'll just file the experience away in the memory banks. It's like taking a class in pottery at the local community college: fun to learn how to make pots but I don't intend to sling clay around after I'm done with the class.
As for why I don't want to persue a PPL. Well, I do have money (I just would rather save than spend), and I could find the time. But I have a new daughter I can't draw myself away from and too many hobies as it is. The one hobby I keep up with (cycling) I do so primarily because, unlike my other hobbies, it keeps me healthy.
Thanks for all of the advice so far. I'll definately keep up with this topic, but right now it's late and time for bed.
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Sep 9
th
, 2006 at 11:44pm
Brett_Henderson
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Oh... And the medical thing really bothers me too. Not because I believe 3rd class medicals really prevent medical related accidents.. But because I believe that there are far too many people who aren't even medically qualified to drive a car. That quick visit for your 3rd class certificate at least lets an actual doctor LOOK at you before you take to the skies..
This won't be the case, as it looks, for a sport pilot.
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Sep 10
th
, 2006 at 12:01am
Brett_Henderson
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Hey Chris,
From what you're saying.. I'd definately go at this from the traditional, PPL angle; and definately do it from a controlled airport.
If all you end up getting out of this, is a satisfied curiosity... then a fully-equiped plane (radios, GPS, transponder) complete with getting under the skin of an over-worked tower guy, could be a big, important, memorable part of it all.
As for finding the right instructor (one who's comfy taking on a student with no long-term goal).. being that I've only had one student, I'm not best qualified to help you there. I can tell you this though.. If you presented your situation to me tomorrow.. I'd be thrilled to take you on as a student. It would be tough to customize pre-solo training to fit someone who might only be looking to solo.. But it would be a learning experience for both of us; which I'd be happy to partake in, with some of our experimenting done pro-bono. We'd both walk away better for it.
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Sep 10
th
, 2006 at 12:54am
beefhole
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a fully-equiped plane (radios, GPS, transponder) complete with getting under the skin of an over-worked tower guy
That is a VERY important part of flying
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Sep 11
th
, 2006 at 1:10am
beaky
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Clear enough, Chris... but if you'd really rather "save than spend", you better stay away from airplanes.
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Sep 11
th
, 2006 at 7:53am
Chris_F
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Clear enough, Chris... but if you'd really rather "save than spend", you better stay away from airplanes.
Yeah, tell me about it. My other hobby is sports cars... Thankfully a 75,000 mile Miata has allowed me to partake in the hobby AND not spend too much. But somehow I doubt there is such a thing as "inexpensive" when it comes to airplanes.
You never know though. I always wanted to sail (another expensive pastime) and I was able to find a free community boating program near where I work. So stranger things have happened...
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