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3rd September 1939 - 11.15 am (Read 2744 times)
Sep 3rd, 2006 at 2:05pm

Hagar   Offline
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Surprised nobody posted this. One of the most significant events of the last century.

Historic speech to the nation by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.
"I am speaking to you from the Cabinet Room at 10 Downing Street. This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government an official note stating that unless we heard from them by eleven o'clock, that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and consequently this country is at war with Germany."
http://www.doverpages.co.uk/declaration.htm#
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2006 at 8:12pm by Hagar »  
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Reply #1 - Sep 4th, 2006 at 12:41am

H   Offline
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Quote:
Surprised nobody posted this.

Sorry, it took a while longer for anyone on this side of the Atlantic puddle to hear about it, longer to actually believe it and even longer to get officially involved. Wink
Then there's the fact that the majority of us didn't exist at the time. Tongue


8)
 
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Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 1:55pm

dcunning30   Offline
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I think Americans were watching the goings on quite intently.  Heck, by 1939, the US even (unbelivably) had a contingent who actually liked Hitler, such as Henry Ford.  And there were many, many more Americans who were isolationists such as Charles Lindberg.  Coming out of the depression, the US knew what was going on, but nobody wanted to get involved.

Pearl Harbor changed everything.  The US declared war on Japan, and as a result of the tripartite pact, Germany declared was on the US.
 
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Reply #3 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 5:02pm

Hagar   Offline
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I wasn't having a dig at Americans.

PS. September 3rd was also my late mother-in-law's birthday. It was much easier to remember than most.
 
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Reply #4 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 5:05pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
I wasn't having a dig at Americans.



I know.   Grin

I was responding to H.
 
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Reply #5 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 5:27pm

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Quote:
The US declared war on Japan

It was the other way around, surely?  The attack on Pearl Harbor couldn't be considered anything but a declaration of war.

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Reply #6 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 1:30am

H   Offline
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Quote:
I wasn't having a dig at Americans.
Doug knows my estranged (from much of the world) sense of humor and realized I knew that. I just didn't want him left dangling out there with no response. Tongue Cheesy
Quote:
I was responding to H.
As aware and watching as they may have been, most would probably not know the significance of that date; not my mom nor aunt -- nor my oldest living uncles, both of whom are WW2 veterans. They remember that it happened quite well (my uncles knew it was in 1939) but not the date. We all remember the significance of December 7, 1941, however, even aside from the fact that it was the birthdate of my eldest paternal uncle (another WW2 veteran, now deceased).
Wink
Quote:
It was the other way around, surely?  The attack on Pearl Harbor couldn't be considered anything but a declaration of war.
It goes both ways: if you don't make a counter-declaration of war, you've basically surrendered. Japan did declare first, howbeit, not as promptly as intended.


8)
 
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Reply #7 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 9:19am

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I suppose different nations do it differently.  But according to the US Constitution, only congress can declare war.  That's typically done by a vote.  Some confusion has occurred by the notion that some official document or statement has to take place that says "We, The United States of America Declare War On ____".  Technically, that's just a formality.  According to the Constitution, a vote on a resolution giving the president the permission to prosecute the war is sufficient.
 
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Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 2:08pm

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Gryshnak is right. The Japanise did declare war on the US. Firstly by this strike on Pearl Harbour, and secondly by a letter containing the declaration of war that arrived later than it should have done.
 
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Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:17pm

dcunning30   Offline
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I'm aware of the fact that Japan declared war on the US first by it's attack on Pearl Harbor and as well as the message that was required to be given to the Americans 1 hour before the attack, which we know didn't happen as the Japanese had planned.  In context, I assumed that was a given and didn't need to be explicitely stated.  However, in the US, according to our constitution, we're required to declare war by congressional approval.
 
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Reply #10 - Oct 1st, 2006 at 8:46am

Ijineda   Offline
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the declaration of war came only after 3 days. and the real hostilities would only begin half a year later. so I kinda understand it when the Polish felt a little abandoned by their allies...

btw, why didnt the allies declare war on the soviet union at that time? they took the other half of poland...
 
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Reply #11 - Oct 1st, 2006 at 1:00pm

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But the long and the short is that England acually started the second world war regardless of what Germany did. The UK made the first declaration of war.

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Reply #12 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 11:46am

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Quote:
But the long and the short is that England acually started the second world war regardless of what Germany did. The UK made the first declaration of war.

Matt



Huh?  Wars are started by pieces of paper and not guns firing?

Seems like so many are concerned by formal declarations.  The world is not a tidy and neat place, governed by formalities.  As far as I'm concerned, the commencement of hostilities is all the declaration I need to conclude a war has started.
 
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Reply #13 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 12:08pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Seems like so many are concerned by formal declarations.  The world is not a tidy and neat place, governed by formalities.  As far as I'm concerned, the commensement of hostilities is all the declaration I need to conclude a war has started.

That's fine if someone attacks you direct but it's not always as simple as that. Germany posed no immediate threat to Britain by attacking Poland. War was offically declared by Britain & France to honour a treaty agreement. This came far too late to help Poland.
 
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Reply #14 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 1:59pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
Germany posed no immediate threat to Britain by attacking Poland. War was offically declared by Britain & France to honour a treaty agreement. This came far too late to help Poland.


That's true, but they were under no illusion that Germany wouldn't go after them next.  And history bears this out.  This is in contrast with Halle Selasse (sp) begging fellow League of Nation member nations to come to Etheopia's aid when Italy invaded.  The difference here was none of the other member nations felt threatened by Italy, so Halle Selasse's begging for aid went unanswered.
 
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Reply #15 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 3:12pm

expat   Offline
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Quote:
The world is not a tidy and neat place, governed by formalities.  As far as I'm concerned, the commencement of hostilities is all the declaration I need to conclude a war has started.


Yes it is, because if you do not go to war properly these days, you will end up in the dock a a later date, whether you are a leader or just a troop following orders.

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Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 9:01am

Ijineda   Offline
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Lets see, wars without any "war declaration":





USA vs. Vietnam (1965 - 1971)

USA vs. Iraq (1990 & 2003)

USA vs. Afghanistan (2001)

Iraq vs. Kuwait (1990)

All the israeli vs. arab countrys wars (1947-49, 1956,
1967, 1973, 2006)

NATO vs. Serbia (1999)

USSR vs. Afghanistan (1979-89)

India vs. Pakistan (1947-49)

France vs. Algeria (1954-62)

Nigeria vs. Biafra (1967)

Egypt vs. Libya (1971)

UK vs. Argentina (1982)

USA vs. Grenada (1983)

USA vs. Panama (1989)

Yugoslavian civil war (1991-1999)

Rwanda (1994)

USA vs. Somalia (1993)

2nd Intifada  (since 2000)

Darfur (2003)

and the list aint near from being complete.




On the other hand, states at war (declaration of war was made but no peace treaty):

Israel vs. Syria and Lebanon (sionce Yom-Kippur)

North Korea vs. South Korea

Russia vs. Japan (since 1945)

Netherlands vs. Portugal (since 1567)


Conclusion: noone is declaring war any more. going to battle is enough of a declaration.
 
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Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 9:04am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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You've included some civil wars there (Yugoslavia) and some genocides (Rwanda). Do they really count?


Oh yeah, the USA didn't go to war with Somalia. They were there on a humanitarian mission.
 
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Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 9:10am

Ijineda   Offline
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Quote:
Oh yeah, the USA didn't go to war with Somalia. They were there on a humanitarian mission.


us sent their soldiers there to fight an kill. thats war to me.

maybe the locals would agree.
 
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Reply #19 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 9:17am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
us sent their soldiers there to fight an kill. thats war to me.

maybe the locals would agree.

No. The troops were sent there to ensure that the people got the humanitarian aid that was being sent there instead of it all being taken by the warlords which was what was happening. They wern't allowed to shoot without being fired upon first.
 
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #20 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 4:15pm

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Quote:
USA vs. Grenada (1983)


I wonder what the USA would have said if the UK invaded Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket Island?

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Reply #21 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 7:02pm

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Quote:
I wonder what the USA would have said if the UK invaded Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket Island?

Matt

I might try that one day. Would quite like to go to Martha's Vineyard. Grin
 
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Reply #22 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 1:50am

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I might try that one day. Would quite like to go to Martha's Vineyard. Grin


Trade you for the Isle of Wight.  Wink
 
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Reply #23 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 3:20am

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Trade you for the Isle of Wight.  Wink



Only if you take Parkhusrt and it's "guests" as a job lot  Grin

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Reply #24 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 10:13am

dcunning30   Offline
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Regarding the USA vs Granada thing, to be accurate, Cuba sents soldiers into Granada to support a violent coup.  There were American civilians in Granada, specifically American medical students.  The US sent it's military in because of the civilians.  So, to be accurate, Cuba participated in a coup in Granada, and the US kicked the Cubans out.
 
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Reply #25 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 10:32am

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Yes it is, because if you do not go to war properly these days, you will end up in the dock a a later date, whether you are a leader or just a troop following orders.

Matt


I know that's what the Hague want's to have happen, but there's politics in everything.  If it's not politically expedient, the guilty won't be charged.  Nobody's trying to charge Nasrallah for starting that Hezbollah vs Israel war when Hezbollah kidnapped those Israeli soldiers.
 
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Reply #26 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 11:59am

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Quote:
On the other hand, states at war (declaration of war was made but no peace treaty):

Israel vs. Syria and Lebanon (sionce Yom-Kippur)

North Korea vs. South Korea

Russia vs. Japan (since 1945)

Netherlands vs. Portugal (since 1567)


Conclusion: noone is declaring war any more. going to battle is enough of a declaration.


You forgot this one

Russia vs. Germany (Since 1945)
 
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Reply #27 - Nov 7th, 2006 at 4:05pm
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well this may be a  little belated but, the attack on pearl harbor was suppossed to play out as some diplomatic ploy, so that america would not declare war against japan. but it didn't turn out that way.
 
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Reply #28 - Nov 7th, 2006 at 6:33pm

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Quote:
well this may be a  little belated but, the attack on pearl harbor was suppossed to play out as some diplomatic ploy, so that america would not declare war against japan. but it didn't turn out that way.

Dunno how you figured that one out. Pearl Harbour was a pre-emtive strike intended to happen at the same time as an official declaration of war was made to the US government by the Japanise Embassy.
 
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Reply #29 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 9:20am

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I have watched pearl Harbour the old one  25 times on DVD at home i still cannot come to the conclusion that how did the US ignore so many warnings, even on the net after going through so many sites I cannot understand how such a blunder could happen with the loss of so many men.
 
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Reply #30 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 9:54am
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didnt the american civil war officialy break out after shots where fired at fort sumter or something like that??

realy should know that spent last yera studying the bloomin conflict!

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Reply #31 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 1:47pm

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eniranjanrao wrote on Nov 11th, 2006 at 9:20am:
I have watched pearl Harbour the old one  25 times on DVD at home i still cannot come to the conclusion that how did the US ignore so many warnings, even on the net after going through so many sites I cannot understand how such a blunder could happen with the loss of so many men.


You have the clear vision of hindsight.  I'm assuming you're referring to Tora Tora Tora.  That's an excellent movie that's tremendously accurate, until it stumbles with that supposed Yamamoto quote about the "sleeping giant".  I've not seen anyone willing to say he never said that quote, but I've read alot on the subject and when anyone refers to the quote, everyone says they can't cooberate it.

But anyway, remember you have the clear vision of hindsight.  Even though we clearly see the blunders, at the time, the blunders weren't so obvious.
 
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Reply #32 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 1:54pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
didnt the american civil war officialy break out after shots where fired at fort sumter or something like that??

realy should know that spent last yera studying the bloomin conflict!

john


That's correct.  The American Civil War was fascination on a number of levels.  What astounds me is the fact that they went to war with rifles yet maintained the tactics that were developed for muskets.  It was a bloody mess.  As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of inventions.  FINALLY, they learned that lesson at the army level around the time of the Battle of the Wilderness, some 3 years after the start of the war.
 
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Reply #33 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 2:16pm

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dcunning30 wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 1:54pm:
That's correct.  The American Civil War was fascination on a number of levels.  What astounds me is the fact that they went to war with rifles yet maintained the tactics that were developed for muskets.  It was a bloody mess.  As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of inventions.  FINALLY, they learned that lesson at the army level around the time of the Battle of the Wilderness, some 3 years after the start of the war.

To be fair they were only rifled muskets. And it was the extra range that caused the extra casualties and not rate of fire. Basic musket tactics of lining up against your opponent and firing broadside after broadside at them hung on long after the demise of the musket and were only really disposed of with the invention of the Machinegun and WWI.
 
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