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VC-10 Aerobatic Certification (Read 2209 times)
Reply #15 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 3:25pm

vololiberista   Offline
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You may be quite right about it being subject to manouvres as such (Dizzy Addicot's name appears here and there), but I doubt they would get the certification and clearance in the release to service/airworthiness certificates... Smiley


You can doubt as much as you like but the fact is the VC10 does have a Utility certification. Obviously there ěs a difference between  a VC10 and a Zlin  The VC10 is classed as a High Performance a/c and thus is capable of recovering from all possible Gross upsets. How many modern jets can recover from an inverted spin or inverted spiral dive without being bent!!!

 

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Reply #16 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 3:41pm

Hagar   Offline
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You can doubt as much as you like but the fact is the VC10 does have a Utility certification. Obviously there ěs a difference between  a VC10 and a Zlin  The VC10 is classed as a High Performance a/c and thus is capable of recovering from all possible Gross upsets.

I'm not in a position to argue as you obviously know more about the VC10 than me. Give me a quote from a reliable source & I will believe you. I have no idea what a Utility certification means in this sense but this doesn't sound like ARB (Air Registration Board) terminology to me. The CAA was not formed until 1972.

Quote:
How many modern jets can recover from an inverted spin or inverted spiral dive without being bent!!!

I have no doubt that modern arliners are tested just as stringently if not more so before being certified to carry passengers.
 

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Reply #17 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 4:52pm

vololiberista   Offline
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I'm not in a position to argue as you obviously know more about the VC10 than me. Give me a quote from a reliable source & I will believe you. I have no idea what a Utility certification means in this sense but this doesn't sound like ARB (Air Registration Board) terminology to me. The CAA was not formed until 1972.

I have no doubt that modern arliners are tested just as stringently if not more so before being certified to carry passengers.



Modern a/c are tested of course!! In order to define their flight envelope.  In the case of the VC10 it was specifically designed as a high performance a/c and thus it's flight envelope is considerable compared to ordinary jets!!

If my memory serves The actual certification was "unrestricted" which equates to "utility". The certification nowadays is "normal" "utility" and "special"   "Special" is full aerobatic capability. In otherwords one can chuck it about the sky and nothing will happen to the airframe.
"Normal" is granted to a/c that can safely recover from +3.5 g and -1.5g manoeuvres. (all modern jet transports) "Utility" falls between the two.  I stand corrected but I believe the Vc10 is rated as +5g and -3.5g.
 

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Reply #18 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 5:01pm

Hagar   Offline
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If my memory serves The actual certification was "unrestricted" which equates to "utility". The certification nowadays is "normal" "utility" and "special"

An "Unrestricted" Certificate of Airworthiness is normal for all commercial passenger carrying aircraft. On 7th June 1946, Bristol 170 Freighter G-AGVB was granted the first unrestricted Certificate of Airworthiness for a new (British built) post war aircraft. The Bristol Freighter is hardly an aerobatic type. http://glostransporthistory.softdata.co.uk/JetAgeRMC_Bristol170.htm

PS. The DH.106 Comet was granted an Unrestricted passenger-carrying Certificate of Airworthiness in early 1952.
 

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Reply #19 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 1:54pm

C   Offline
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Mmmm...

Inverted spinning. It's bad enough trying to get a high performance training aircraft in to one of them...
 
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Reply #20 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:21pm

Hagar   Offline
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While researching this I found a very interesting obituary to the late David Davies who was the chief test pilot of the ARB/CAA flight department for 33 years until his retirement in 1982. He was directly responsible for checking the handling of all new aircraft types on the British civil register, from the first jet airliner, the Comet, to the supersonic Concorde & including the VC10. In fact he wrote the book Handling the Big Jets which is still regarded as the jet pilot's bible. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,173-948284,00.html

I rather like a couple of quotes in the obituary. Quote:
He had his share of hairy moments, especially when evaluating stalls. During a Britannia stalling test in the 1950s, the big four-engined transport suddenly flick-rolled and went into a spin. He recalled: “It recovered beautifully — which Bristol claimed was grounds for not complaining!” On the way home, “wondering why we’d ever joined in the first place", his flight observer Roy Burdett lit a cigarette for him and said: “How about a loop as an encore?”

Quote:
Of the superpilot status popularly accorded to Concorde captains, he said: “Anybody who can ride a bike and has passed a few O levels can fly Concorde.” One of his favourite aeroplanes was the Boeing 747, which, “for the big fat thing that it is, flies like a dream”.

I don't know about the old BCARs but I checked the current EASA/FAA civil certification regulations & the "normal" "utility" and "special" categories apply to FAR/JAR/CS-23 (Normal, Utility, Aerobatic, and Commuter Category Aeroplanes)
(1) Aeroplanes in the normal, utility and aerobatic categories that have a seating configuration, excluding the pilot seat(s), of nine or fewer and a maximum certificated take-off weight of 5670 kg (12 500 lb) or less; and

(2) Propeller-driven twin-engined aeroplanes in the commuter category that have a seating configuration, excluding the pilot seat(s), of nineteen or fewer and a maximum certificated take-off weight of 8618 kg (19 000 lb) or less.


Heavy airliners are covered by FAR/JAR/CS-25 (Large aeroplanes) which is not split into these separate categories. http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/Agency_Mesures/Certification_Spec/easa_cs25_amendment...
 

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