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VC-10 Aerobatic Certification (Read 2207 times)
Aug 16
th
, 2006 at 11:46pm
cheesegrater
Ex Member
I heard some people claiming the VC-10 had an aerobatic certification. I tired searching the web to confirm this but I haven't found anything.
Did it have an aerobatic certification? What exactly is meant by "aerobatic certification"? What kind of maneuvers can you do, that you can't do on other liners?
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Reply #1 -
Aug 17
th
, 2006 at 11:58am
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Er, no...
I stand to be corrected, but I'm 99.99999% sure...
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Reply #2 -
Aug 17
th
, 2006 at 1:24pm
Ecko
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I believe it was our VC-10 enthusiast, Voloberilista, or something to that extend, who stated it could do aerobatics? You could try to PM him with directions to this thread. I think he only hangs around the FS2004 forum.
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Reply #3 -
Aug 20
th
, 2006 at 3:17pm
Hagar
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One wonders why a large 4-engined jet airliner would need an aerobatics certification. All sorts of aircraft might be capable of aerobatics but would never be expected to do them during their normal service life.
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Reply #4 -
Aug 20
th
, 2006 at 4:37pm
expat
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The 707 has been barrel rolled, so could it obtain a licence for this one manover......for the sake of conversation.
Matt
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B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #5 -
Aug 21
st
, 2006 at 1:12pm
vololiberista
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Vieni in Italia
Posts: 1042
A Barrel roll doesn't count as aerobatics as it is a 1G manouevre.
The VC10 was given a "Utility" class airworthiness certificate which is CAA speak for aerobatics.
The airframe is immensely strong as all the panels and frames are milled out of solid metal!!!!!!
In 1966 there was a tragic accident involving a BOAC 707 which broke up in clear air turbulence over Mount Fuji. The VC10 would have survived And indeed in 1974 i was in a VC10 over Istanbul when we hit clear air turbulence. The wings flexed almost to their fatigue limit!!!! To avoid any more we climbed to FL460 for the rest of the journey to London!!
Vololiberista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #6 -
Aug 21
st
, 2006 at 4:27pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
A Barrel roll doesn't count as aerobatics as it is a 1G manouevre.
Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.
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Reply #7 -
Aug 21
st
, 2006 at 5:19pm
vololiberista
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Colonel
Vieni in Italia
Posts: 1042
Quote:
Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.
Even though the a/c inverts it remains a 1g manoeuvre throughout so it's no different to flying straight and level!!
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm
vololiberista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #8 -
Aug 21
st
, 2006 at 6:44pm
cheesegrater
Ex Member
Quote:
Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.
I don't know what is the criteria for an aerobatic manouver, however the 707 roll was a 1G roll.
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Reply #9 -
Aug 21
st
, 2006 at 7:27pm
Isak922
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobatic_maneuver
States that even basic barrel rolls are considered aerobatic maneuvers.
4GB DDR2 PC5300; 3.2GHz Pentium D 940, Nvidia 9800GT 1024MB DDR3, Windows XP Pro SP3
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Reply #10 -
Aug 22
nd
, 2006 at 2:12am
vololiberista
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Colonel
Vieni in Italia
Posts: 1042
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobatic_maneuver
States that even basic barrel rolls are considered aerobatic maneuvers.
In as much as it
looks
scary!!!
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm
But it is only 1G. I'll delve into the CAA definition of "Utility" to find out exactly their idea of aerobatics. But certainly the VC10 could and was chucked about the sky in true aerobatic manoeuvres.
Vololiberrista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #11 -
Aug 22
nd
, 2006 at 4:00am
Hagar
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Quote:
In as much as it
looks
scary!!!
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm
But it is only 1G. I'll delve into the CAA definition of "Utility" to find out exactly their idea of aerobatics. But certainly the VC10 could and was chucked about the sky in true aerobatic manoeuvres.
Vololiberrista
I don't think whether it looks scary or not comes into it. Basic loops & rolls are classed as true aerobatic manoeuvres & are the basis of all aerobatics. During initial testing all aircraft are subjected to manoeuvres & stresses far in excess of what they will encounter during their normal service life. There is no possible reason for a passenger carrying airliner to have an aerobatic classification.
PS. Like most British aircraft of the period the VC10 was over-engineered & built like a brick outhouse. This is just one reason for its lack of success.
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Reply #12 -
Aug 22
nd
, 2006 at 8:07am
vololiberista
Offline
Colonel
Vieni in Italia
Posts: 1042
Quote:
PS. Like most British aircraft of the period the VC10 was over-engineered & built like a brick outhouse. This is just one reason for its lack of success.
The reason for it's lack of success was largely political. BOAC were forced to order it and did everything they could to do it down falsifying efficiencies, passenger figures etc etc etc. The reason behind this is that they were in the pocket of Boeing. The head of BOAC at that time had a secret agreement to "acquire" (not buy) 707's Yes that's right. Boeing gave BOAC launch 707's for free!!!!!
The fact that the VC10 was prefered by crew and passengers alike was quite embarassing for BOAC espècially as most chose it over the 707 when crossing the Atlantic. Even though the vc10 was not "designed" to fly over the Atlantic it proved much more efficient than the 707.
Yes it is built like a brick but it doesn't glide like one!! It was designed from the outset as a high performance jet which is why it was given the "utility" certificate.
There are many film clips showing it's performance capabilities. And here's one you can all try for yourselves.
That is to rotate before the numbers on rwy13 at Kai Tak this is fully loaded at 335,000lbs MTO!!!
A sinch in a VC10 8)
Vololiberista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #13 -
Aug 22
nd
, 2006 at 8:57am
Hagar
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Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Quote:
The reason for it's lack of success was largely political.
That might have been the main reason & it's nothing unusual either before or since. The destruction of the British aircraft industry was nothing short of a national disgrace. However, this has no bearing on any airliner requiring an aerobatic certification.
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Reply #14 -
Aug 22
nd
, 2006 at 2:37pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
In as much as it
looks
scary!!!
Well, argue as much as you like, but last time I barrel rolled, it was an aerobatic manouvre - by definition of the VC10's final operator...
You may be quite right about it being subject to manouvres as such (Dizzy Addicot's name appears here and there), but I doubt they would get the certification and
clearance
in the release to service/airworthiness certificates...
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