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have I found the crap so soon? (Read 2396 times)
Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:09pm

x_jasper   Offline
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After writing several very supportive posts about this new sim, I am aghast to discover microsoft's claim of aircraft compatibility is somewhat suspect.

I tried to import the FS9 DC3, it went in BUT!! no textures. Angry

FSX rextures use DDS format, none of the demo stock textures use bmp.

I then converted the DC3 textures to DDS format....still no textures showing, just a plain gray model.

Yes, I did put the env bitmap from FS9 into the FSX main texture folder !! and that has nothing to do with the problem.

I am begining to suspect this is the start of the dirty tricks, oops! did I say dirty tricks? sorry meant to say 'false claims'

I suppose I am to be gently coaxed into accepting stupid gray textureless models for the time being, so that later on I will be totally unaware of paying money for addons.

MS just went from '8' to 0 /10 in my estimations.
 

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Reply #1 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:17pm

Katahu   Offline
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Just because one default aircraft from FS9 doesn't look well in FSX doesn't mean that Microsoft's claim for backwards compatibility is a lie/trick/suspect/whatever you call it. Have you looked at some of the screenshots of other FS9-based addons that other people have tested? Some of them even looked better in FSX [like the Mig-29, F-14, even the default Robinson, etc.].
 
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Reply #2 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:20pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Ok, I'll try the robinson
 

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Reply #3 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:21pm
Tweek   Ex Member

 
Believe me, not every aircraft from FS9 will work.
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:31pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Tried the Robinson, same problem.

FS9 textures don't work in FSX---fact.

If as you say Kat, someone is having success at importing from FS9 textures perhaps they would be community minded and tell us exactly how?

MS DID claim full backward compatibility.

Regards
Jasper
 

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Reply #5 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:31pm

Hagar   Offline
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The FS9 default DC-3 works for me without any modification.

...

As does every FS9 default & 3rd party aircraft I've tried so far.
 

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Reply #6 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:31pm
flymo   Ex Member

 
wow thats a bit OTT isnt it to claim that. just cod one thing isnt worling doesnt mean that FSX will not be backwards compatable.
example someone has put the default bell in FSX i think. and ive seen shots of freeware imported in, the F-14 for example.
 
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Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:33pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Hagar perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us exactly how you imported the DC3?

Jasper
 

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Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:37pm

x_jasper   Offline
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No?, I thought not.
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:38pm

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OK give him a little longer than 4 minutes to do it though.

.Mic
 

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Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:40pm

Ecko   Offline
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All planes I've tried have been compatible, default too. Not all gauges have been functional though.
 

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Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:41pm

Mictheslik   Offline
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I would also stress that all the planes I have tried have been compatable....now I just need to test the PMDG 737 with its FMC Grin Grin

.Mic
 

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Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:45pm

Fly2e   Offline
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IT IS A FREAKIN DEMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 

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Reply #13 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:46pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Ok smart asses, how about I tell you I write flight dynamics which are as fluid and probably as accurate as MS systems will allow.

I also produce sound files of a very high standard.

..........but neglect to tell anybody anything, other than they work ok for me. Would be very constuctive wouldn't it?
 

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Reply #14 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:46pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Hagar perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us exactly how you imported the DC3?

Jasper

I copied the Douglas_DC3 folder from FS9\Aircraft & pasted it into the Flight Simulator X Demo\SimObjects\airplanes folder. I aslo did the same with the Robinson_R22 folder & that works too. Maybe this depends on your video card. My system is nothing special. AMD 3000+ with GeForce 6200.
 

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Reply #15 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:49pm

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Quote:
Ok smart asses, how about I tell you I write flight dynamics which are as fluid and probably as accurate as MS systems will allow.

I also produce sound files of a very high standard.

..........but neglect to tell anybody anything, other than they work ok for me. Would be very constuctive wouldn't it?


What's your problem?
 

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Reply #16 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:52pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Ok Hagar, appreciated.

I assume you have not performed any bmp conversion to DDS format. Therefore this would suggest FSX core is coded to read bmp just the same.

However, for some people's gauges to work and not for others, some people's textures to load etc, if hardware related suggests to me at least some impending stitch-up at the final release, or simply sloppy workmanship in the demo core.

Shame, I was going to put out the cub and DC3 with my own dynamics for this one.
 

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Reply #17 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:54pm

x_jasper   Offline
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I'm throwing one Ecko, can't you tell? Cry
 

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Reply #18 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 3:55pm

Mictheslik   Offline
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Quote:
Ok smart asses, how about I tell you I write flight dynamics which are as fluid and probably as accurate as MS systems will allow.

I also produce sound files of a very high standard.

..........but neglect to tell anybody anything, other than they work ok for me. Would be very constuctive wouldn't it?


By stating that they work for us all we are saying is that we installed them the normal way and they work.
I dont quite know how flight dynamics and sound comes into this but i'm willing to listen ???

Sorry if we didnt make that clearer from the beginning.

.Mic
 

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Reply #19 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 4:02pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Because after the release when they all post on here their dismay at poor dynamics and sounds, my advice could be along the lines of: " mine work ok" and nothing else. This would of course be unhelpful.

Now after a stressful day, FSX messing me about I am going to sign off and run an app where I can kill things.

G'night
Jasper
 

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Reply #20 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 4:11pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Because after the release when they all post on here their dismay at poor dynamics and sounds, my advice could be along the lines of: " mine work ok" and nothing else. This would of course be unhelpful.

As we have no idea of your system specs or what's causing the problem what else can we do but tell you of our experience? As I stated earlier I suspect it's caused by your system, display drivers, graphics settings or even your FSX display settings. Sorry I can't be more help but I know very little about hardware.

PS. If you care to check out the Freeware Screenshots forum you will see plenty of shots of 3rd party aircraft successfully imported into the FSX Demo.
 

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Reply #21 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 4:25pm

Katahu   Offline
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I decided to install my Nissan onto FSX te old fasion way. No edits, no converting textures, nada. Just plane old "drag and drop".

All I have esperienced with the Nissan was improved handling on dirt roads, blurred out textures and no gauges showing up in the DVC even though they worked marvelously in the 2D panel view. Besides the dirt roads, it looks like Microsoft has rearranged the code in FSX in regards to how it handles textures and xml-based gauges.
 
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Reply #22 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:18pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Interesting observations Kat,

Your Nissan experiment adds a bit of weight to what has been said.

From what I've seen and what you describe I am beginning to think there's some kind of hidden catch just coming to light with this demo, and indeed it might be hardware related.

I currently use Nvidia graphics which as it happens runs CFS3's XML base with no problem, and other XML apps too. Not a glitch.

I would personally rule out concerns about XML.

More likely, the finger points at some kind of DX and / or graphics chipset issue.

It could also be the reason why some report blacked out VC views.

I wonder if by some strange chance there is anything in common with these specific graphic issues? I'll have to have a look.

I'd hedge a bet MS compiled this stuff for DX10 compatible cards etc, ..............yep, a sting is imminent. Lmao. Same old story.


Regards
Jasper



 

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Reply #23 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:20pm

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Jasper sounds like he has some very serious issues. People are trying to help you and you just respond 'smart assess'?? Whats that all about?   Undecided

And just because people say that its working fine for them doesnt mean its useless information, its simply a response before you pound Microsoft into the dirt in these forums.

And Id like to echo the point made earlier just incase something isnt quite right with FSX.....

ITS A DEMO!!!!!!!

 
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Reply #24 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:35pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Yes you are right goodfella, it IS a demo!!

If you wanted to sell me something off the back of a demonstration would you, A) allow me to evaluate it thoroughly ?, or B) show me a bug-ridden half system and not bother disclosing crucial facts ?

Regards
Jasper
 

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Reply #25 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:37pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Aw cmon - make a fuss if you do things right and they don't work but....

If you'd looked down in screenies you'd have seen how I've imported all the default FS2004 aircraft - and how they all actually look much better in FSX because the shine has been improved.

So what you've said isn't annoying.....BUT THIS IS

...

Here's the Cub from FS2004 flying over Heathrow in FSX  Roll Eyes

Nice innit - notice the AI traffic, taxying even. But I can't get any ground textures. Anywhere in the world (except St Martin of course).

See what I mean - that's annoying  Wink
 
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Reply #26 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:52pm

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Hmmm...when I import in alot of the aircraft FS9 (specifically the ones with "shine" attached to the alpha channels), where ever it's suppose to be shiney becomes translucent (and sometimes even transparent)...know whats up with that Roger?

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Reply #27 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 5:52pm

x_jasper   Offline
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You know the more I sit back and think about this the more I get convinced it's a hardware thing. Nice screenshot, Your Cub looks good. On the other hand I get excellent ground textures and excellent gauges, even ones from FS9.

I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with your GPU or mine, just I rather suspect MS has got this sim coded in a particular way.

I ask myself if I had DX10 and or Vista now and with 'optimised' hardware, would I be seeing these problems?

Personally I think graphic issues with the demo are NOT bugs. It could be that the sim (even the demo) maybe optimised for future hardware. Dumb move on the part of MS, in my view at least. We shall have to see.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it looks like there is a trend where those who run x000 series cards get import aircraft textures, but no gauges and no ground textures. Those with other cards like mine..MX series tend to get ground textures and gauges but no import aircraft textures.

AGP / PCI express issue?

Coincidence?

Regards
Jasper
 

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Reply #28 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:09pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Hmmm...when I import in alot of the aircraft FS9 (specifically the ones with "shine" attached to the alpha channels), where ever it's suppose to be shiney becomes translucent (and sometimes even transparent)...know whats up with that Roger?

Jeff Grin


That's easy Jeff - Aumav told us to copy over the envmap.bmp file from FS2004 - does the trick  Wink


Quote:
Those with other cards like mine..MX series tend to get ground textures and gauges but no import aircraft textures.

Regards
Jasper


Ahh.... suspect the MX is your problem here. It's now a very old card that couldn't even handle a lot of the FS2004 textures. It probably won't do much at all with FSX which needs fancy shaders and goodness knows what else. My card also can't cut it - but I've just turned a lot of sliders down so I can play and experiment.
 
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Reply #29 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:18pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Thanks for the confirmation there.

'Old' being the operative word lol.

Seriously, this old MX has sreved me faithfully for a while. I'd previously burned out two ATI's.

Till now it's been a case of "it works well leave it alone".

On this system at least, it runs CFS3 ok and FS9 to an acceptable degree in all respects.

I intend going MAC later in the year so there's no point in doing anything with this pentium box. I just have to establish that FSX will run via MAC's boot camp. If so there will be some serious power at hand.-------Praying Smiley
 

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Reply #30 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:33pm

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Quote:
It could be that the sim (even the demo) maybe optimised for future hardware.


DX10 isn't even on the market yet. Heck, even Microsoft admits that they don't have it and all they could do is simply make a concept image of how FSX "might" look like with DX10.

If the demo was optimized for future hardware, then seriously I doubt that my system would have been able to handle the FSX demo in the first place. So far, these are my specs and the demo is running quite nicely, except for the rediculously long loading time where all you could see is a loading bar moving at 1 cm per minute. Roll Eyes

Pentium 4 with 2.8 GHz
512 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 with 64 MB [with latest Omega driver]*
Windows XP Home Edition SP2 [with latest updates]

*The video card is DX9 compatible and has the latest version.
 
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Reply #31 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:39pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Thanks Katahu

Your'e partly right there but see last thread entry[Rollerball] it is looking more and more like hardware issues.

General feeling is the final release is most likely going to DEMAND hardware upgrade.

Understandable I suppose, just annoying right now because I cannot evaluate what I cannot see. Cry

Jasper
 

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Reply #32 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:41pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
I don't think the MX range is anything like DX9 even - which is why you can't see the water in FS2004. The demo HAS to have a DX9 compatible card I'm pretty sure.
 
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Reply #33 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:41pm

Kolbeck10   Offline
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Quote:
Tried the Robinson, same problem.

FS9 textures don't work in FSX---fact.

If as you say Kat, someone is having success at importing from FS9 textures perhaps they would be community minded and tell us exactly how?

MS DID claim full backward compatibility.

Regards
Jasper


Would you be kind enough to link to this FULL backward compatibility article?
 

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Reply #34 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:45pm

x_jasper   Offline
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Sure I get FS9 water no problem with that card. Struggles with the weather a bit though.

It's late here, I'm off to bed, night all & thanks for your tolerance and understanding.


Regards
Jasper
 

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Reply #35 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 6:58pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
No there doesn't appear to be a problem with backward compatability of aircraft made for FS2004 (GMax and FSDS2). I've also installed default scenery objects and an airport I made some time ago using default objects and textures, using the BGLComp SDK. The scenery objects (small hotel, factory, windmills but no animation) were OK and most of the airport was OK although some textures were missing for various objects (like the tower, one of the fuel trucks). Nevertheless, it looks as though there is reverse compatability or at least a very high degree, with objects that were made for FS2004 based on the BGLComp SDK. So that's good - and more or less what was promised I think.
 
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Reply #36 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 7:14pm

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Quote:
That's easy Jeff - Aumav told us to copy over the envmap.bmp file from FS2004 - does the trick  Wink


D'oh! Must've missed that memo...


...hmm, what about aircrafts that show up with a giant black bar at the bottom of the screen? Kind of like FS's half hearted attempt at widescreen? Got a fix for that?

Thanks,
Jeff Grin

P.S. ...where exactly is the envmap.bmp file located again?

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Reply #37 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 7:18pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
...hmm, what about aircrafts that show up with a giant black bar at the bottom of the screen? Kind of like FS's half hearted attempt at widescreen? Got a fix for that?

Thanks,
Jeff Grin

Yep. It's the panel. Open Panel.cfg in Notepad & change the render_3d_window=1 value to 0.
 

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Reply #38 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 7:22pm

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Quote:
P.S. ...where exactly is the envmap.bmp file located again?

Capt'n Clueless Grin



Flight Simulator 9\Texture Wink
 

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Reply #39 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 7:28pm

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God help me... Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #40 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 9:04pm

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God help me... Roll Eyes


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Reply #41 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 10:25pm

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Quote:
So you still believe in miracles?


...only thing I got left now that the No Child Left Behind thing has gone down the drain Tongue
 

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Reply #42 - Aug 16th, 2006 at 1:40am
PisTon   Ex Member

 
Quote:
After writing several very supportive posts about this new sim, I am aghast to discover microsoft's claim of aircraft compatibility is somewhat suspect.

I tried to import the FS9 DC3, it went in BUT!! no textures. Angry

FSX rextures use DDS format, none of the demo stock textures use bmp.

I then converted the DC3 textures to DDS format....still no textures showing, just a plain gray model.

Yes, I did put the env bitmap from FS9 into the FSX main texture folder !! and that has nothing to do with the problem.

I am begining to suspect this is the start of the dirty tricks, oops! did I say dirty tricks? sorry meant to say 'false claims'

I suppose I am to be gently coaxed into accepting stupid gray textureless models for the time being, so that later on I will be totally unaware of paying money for addons.

MS just went from '8' to 0 /10 in my estimations.


1: All my aircraft work fine, and I saw a picture of a POSKY 757 in space 5 months ago.

2: That's because DDS are better, many games have already converted.

3: You can't convert file types, change a .exe to a .zip and see if it works.

4: The missing envmap will only help transparent textures, NOT missing textures

The game is a demo of FSX, NOT FS9! Meaning, the game is a playable demonstration of the features in fsX.

NOT a modified fs9 which will accept everything thrown at it.

Oh look, theres you're problem. System requirments: 32mb fully DX9 compliant video card. A geforce 4mx is dx8, and AFAIK, a modified Geforce 2.

Quote:
Yes you are right goodfella, it IS a demo!!

If you wanted to sell me something off the back of a demonstration would you, A) allow me to evaluate it thoroughly ?, or B) show me a bug-ridden half system and not bother disclosing crucial facts ?

Regards
Jasper

Read the readme, numerous times it sais work on fsX is ongoing.
 
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Reply #43 - Aug 16th, 2006 at 11:54am

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Nice innit - notice the AI traffic, taxying even. But I can't get any ground textures. Anywhere in the world (except St Martin of course).

See what I mean - that's annoying  Wink


Since 98% of the textures needed for "the rest of the world" aren't present in the DEMO, I am not particularly surprised by what you see...  Wink
 

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Reply #44 - Aug 16th, 2006 at 12:17pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Since 98% of the textures needed for "the rest of the world" aren't present in the DEMO, I am not particularly surprised by what you see...  Wink


That reminds me of the old joke about two men lost in a balloon who landed to ask the way. They said to a man standing nearby, "Where are we?"

"In a balloon", he replied  Grin
 
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