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Boeing 787 has run into a few obstacles (Read 353 times)
Jul 17th, 2006 at 9:56am

Nexus   Offline
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Nothing really shocking though, apparantly it's over weight, according to Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Alan Mulally.
He also added that they now will "focus on achieving a weight-effective structure"...whatever that means.  Grin

A few 787 parts supliers are also behind schedule, but despite that Mulally promised that the 787 wont be delayed.

So the people who flamed the A380 for being over weight, just has to realize that it happens to everybody  Smiley

I'm not surprised, what you have on the paper is seldomly the exact  same thing ending up on the production line.

The 787 will be fine  Smiley
 
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Reply #1 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 10:32am

jb2_86_uk   Offline
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I think a 'weight-effective structure' will involve drilling as many holes into suitable parts as posible Cheesy

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Reply #2 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 2:59pm

dcunning30   Offline
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This is a good article.  It lists the advantages and disadvantages of each manufacture.  Based on the article, I believe Boeing holds a decided advantage over Airbus, unless they fall on their face with the 787.  What will tell is the big vs medium strategy.  So far, based on advanced sales, medium seems the way airlines are going.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2006-07-17-airbus-usat_x....
 

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Reply #3 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 3:08pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
This is a good article.  It lists the advantages and disadvantages of each manufacture.  Based on the article, I believe Boeing holds a decided advantage over Airbus, unless they fall on their face with the 787.  What will tell is the big vs medium strategy.  So far, based on advanced sales, medium seems the way airlines are going.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2006-07-17-airbus-usat_x....

It's not exactly an independent source of infomation. I'd be surprised if "USAtoday" can find anything nice to say about Airbus at all. Tongue


And seriously (or not), when did America ever produce something that was underweight? I mean, the F35 is so grossly obese it can barely take off with an operational load.
 

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Reply #4 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 3:14pm

Hagar   Offline
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And seriously (or not), when did America ever produce something that was underweight? I mean, the F35 is so grossly obese it can barely take off with an operational load.

LOL British aircraft are built like battleships compared with American types. It's a wonder some of them ever left the ground. With military aircraft it's all the equipment the brass hats constantly ask for that increases the weight. Many a good design has been rendered useless because of this.
 

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Reply #5 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 3:34pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
It's not exactly an independent source of infomation. I'd be surprised if "USAtoday" can find anything nice to say about Airbus at all. Tongue


And seriously (or not), when did America ever produce something that was underweight? I mean, the F35 is so grossly obese it can barely take off with an operational load.


You're awfully dismissive of the article, but you didn't mention anything that would call into question the veracity of the article's contents.   Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #6 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 4:05pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
You're awfully dismissive of the article, but you didn't mention anything that would call into question the veracity of the article's contents.   Roll Eyes

I read most of the artical. It was all about "the airbus is late and the 787 is going to wipe the floor with airbus and boeing is going to win".

No US publication is going to find in favour with Airbus. While few European publications will go out and out for Boeing. It's all nationalism.

Quote:
LOL British aircraft are built like battleships compared with American types. It's a wonder some of them ever left the ground. With military aircraft it's all the equipment the brass hats constantly ask for that increases the weight. Many a good design has been rendered useless because of this.

I know the F35 has it's problem because the MoD specified a vertical take off weight that Lockheed stuck to rigourously without realising that it was the operational take off weight. As it is the F35's VTOL capabilities are on the limit without fuel or weapons.
 

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Reply #7 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 4:54pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
I read most of the artical. It was all about "the airbus is late and the 787 is going to wipe the floor with airbus and boeing is going to win".


So, you read most of the article.  Then you formed a conclusion without knowing all the facts?   Roll Eyes

But then again, you still haven't refuted the contents of the article, yet you dismiss the article.  Seems like shooting the messenger because you don't like the message.
 

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Reply #8 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 5:59pm

C   Offline
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So, you read most of the article.  Then you formed a conclusion without knowing all the facts?   Roll Eyes

But then again, you still haven't refuted the contents of the article, yet you dismiss the article.  Seems like shooting the messenger because you don't like the message.


Occasionally on this side of the pond we find the message from Seattle and the press rather repetative and boring...

On the subject of Boeing, in todays "Times" they took a full page advert advertising (!) one of their "Airplanes"...

It got me thinking - if the advert was in a French newspaper, I presume it would be in French, so why do they have to impose "American" English in a British publication...

"It's not a plane, it's an aeroplane..."*

Must have been expensive though, a full page spread in glorious color... Wink Grin

*10 pts for the film, the character, and a bonus for the actor... Wink
 
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Reply #9 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 6:22pm

Hagar   Offline
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To be fair that article seems surprisingly unbiased & well researched. IMHO
 

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Reply #10 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 6:22pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
"It's not a plane, it's an aeroplane..."*


*10 pts for the film, the character, and a bonus for the actor... Wink

Reach for the Sky. Douglas Baders flying instructor. Havn't seen the film in at least ten years so I'm afraid I don't stand a chance on the bonus point.

Quote:
So, you read most of the article.  Then you formed a conclusion without knowing all the facts?   

But then again, you still haven't refuted the contents of the article, yet you dismiss the article.  Seems like shooting the messenger because you don't like the message.

Quite right. I seriously don't have the time, commitment or energy to read more than a few paragraphs of Airbus bashing by an american publication. Same goes for the reverse. Civil aviation is really not much of an interest for me and I doubt, when the 787 comes out, that i'll be able to tell it apart from any of the other airliners.
 

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Reply #11 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 4:13am

Chris_F   Offline
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I'm not surprised, what you have on the paper is seldomly the exact  same thing ending up on the production line.


If Boeing operates anything like my company does, the engineers say: "the part will weigh X pounds".  Management then subtracts 10% and tells their management the new, lower weight for the part.  Then it's up to the engineer to figure out how to get 10% of the weight out of the part.  Sometimes they're able to do it, sometimes they aren't.  The result is often (always?) an overweight airplane.
 
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Reply #12 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 4:18am

Chris_F   Offline
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Quote:
No US publication is going to find in favour with Airbus. While few European publications will go out and out for Boeing. It's all nationalism.
.


You probably don't have as much exposure to US media as we do on this side of the pond (assuming you're in Europe here).  There's nothing the US media likes more than beating up on US companies.  European companies are always automatically assumed superior to US companies, and Japanese companies are practically god-like.  If you were to listen to the US media, you'd think all US companies are crap, produce crap, treat people like crap, treat the environment like crap, etc.  Maybe they're right (of the three cars in my driveway, none of them are by a US based manufacturer). 

You gotta figure, all those "journalists" have all been turned down for real jobs by real american companies, so they've all got a pretty big chip on their shoulder.  Smiley
 
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Reply #13 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 6:45am

Hagar   Offline
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Reach for the Sky. Douglas Baders flying instructor.

Would that be Michael Gough aka "Flying Instructor Pearson"? I cheated. Tongue http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049665/fullcredits
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OR did Charlie mean Kenneth More who played Bader?
 

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Reply #14 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 7:38am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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OR did Charlie mean Kenneth More who played Bader?

I couldn't remember whether or not Bader repeated the phrase later on in the film. I get the feeling he did when he took over 242 squadron.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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