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how to get rid off blurries? (Read 4215 times)

Jun 22^nd, 2006 at 10:04am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
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Posts: 949

how to get rid off blurries?

this has probably been dealt already but I can't find any informations, except going through FS-GS...
The thing is I have a rather high end computer, not the latest but still very good I think, with lot's of RAM, 4gigs, and I still have the blurries. I tried some tweaks I found on the net to enhance FS9 graphics when using megascenery, which I don't use, but even if my computer seems faster the graphics are not really better.

for info, I run all sliders to the max, mip mapping 6, hardware rendered lights 7, bilinear flitering and AA on, global max texture size massive, target framerate 25.
my comp's spec are in my sig.

here are some example, it's a basic flight from seattle tacoma, with silverwing nice wheather theme, nothing more

here, the blurries start in front of the engines intakes

here, in the middle of the radar

the big black squares disapear usually after 1-2secs

as you can see the frame rate is very good but the quality is not the best...

any help welcome, thanks

vince

« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2006 at 5:38pm by thebrelon »

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #1 - Jun 22^nd, 2006 at 1:59pm

PisTon Ex Member

To get rid of them, do the following:

Go into the game, and turn MIP mapping quality to 4 in display settings, exit, and then go:

Start----->run---->type "%appdata%\Microsoft\FS9" without quotes----> press enter--->backup a file called fs9.cfg---> Open up fs9.CFG with notepad or wordpad.

Ok, now you need to find the following lines, and change them to the same ones as I display here.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=1

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

Since you are were flying in a fast jet, and changing areas quickly, you can try changing the Extended level value to 5.

I have noticed no slowdown when using this tweak, and my system is almost identical as yours, only my video card is faster.

Don't forget to tell us if it worked Wink

Wink

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Reply #2 - Jun 22^nd, 2006 at 5:37pm

thebrelon Offline
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life is too short, have
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Posts: 949

thanks for your reply pisTon.
I did exactly what you wrote and have to admit it's better. still not as good as I would like but it has already improved. thanks.
I'll post some screenshot tomorrow to show the difference

edit: here are the pics. I used the same flight except the weather theme which is FS9 default fair weather

you can see the difference, despite it's still quite blurred, it's better. thanks pisTon!

If anybody knows some more tweaks... you're welcome

vince

« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2006 at 4:50am by thebrelon »

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #3 - Jun 24^th, 2006 at 2:28pm

Nick N Ex Member

90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF

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Reply #4 - Jun 24^th, 2006 at 5:33pm

thebrelon Offline
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wow!!!!
that's a lot of informations. thank you nick.

I'll try these tweaks in the following days when I'll have some free time to properly set the sim and do the comparison.

I'll keep you informed anyway.

thanks again
vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #5 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 1:06am

Jakemaster Ex Member

Quote:

90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF

Why did you say to raise the framerate limit to 22? I have mine set at 33 cause the sim was averaging about 32 so I made the limit 33 to give it a little buffer and yet try to acheive that unification (which, by the way, seems to have worked. Still nowhere NEAR fsgs quality, but better)

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Reply #6 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 5:51am

PisTon Ex Member

Quote:

90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF

Thank you for correcting me, however saying Quote:

Bulls****,

when I am trying to help someone isn't funny Cry

Cry

Undecided

Sad

Embarrassed

Also, why set max fps to 22?

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Reply #7 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 12:39pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

Why did you say to raise the framerate limit to 22? I have mine set at 33 cause the sim was averaging about 32 so I made the limit 33 to give it a little buffer and yet try to acheive that unification (which, by the way, seems to have worked. Still nowhere NEAR fsgs quality, but better)

He will need to experiment with the frame rate lock... It may need to come up to between 24-30

As for 33 on an x700 ATI card... that would appear too high but every system is different. I would say 28 would be a better choice for that card... but it requires calibration and testing to find out.

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Reply #8 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 12:42pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

Thank you for correcting me, however saying
when I am trying to help someone isn't funny Cry

Cry

Undecided

Sad

Embarrassed

Also, why set max fps to 22?

1. Dont take it personally... and i am sorry if it offended you

2. He will need to experiment with the framelock. The 20 you suggested is way too low for that video card. 22 was a better choice to experiment with blurries. 24-28 would probably be a better choice for the frame lock but he will need to experiment with it.

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Reply #9 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 3:02pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

wow!!!!
that's a lot of informations. thank you nick.

I'll try these tweaks in the following days when I'll have some free time to properly set the sim and do the comparison.

I'll keep you informed anyway.

thanks again
vince

There are many, many things that cause blurries… Blurred visuals are a sign of the system not being in balance. It can be caused by everything from incorrect FS9 scenery settings, FS9.cfg settings,… to anything that sucks up CPU cycles such as hard drive access and sound issues. It can be cause by background services and programs if the system is not high end. Improper installtion (or not installed) FS9.1 update can cause them. They can also be caused by a developer who did not mip-map scenery or aircraft textures or (usually) a combination of all of the above.

The list goes on and on…

That’s what you are paying for with FS-GS… the elimination of things that cause blurred visual, stutters, overall low quality visual experience and learning how to keep your sim in order when you install new add-ons. You can only accomplish so much with the hardware you have. FS-GS teaches the user how to get the most out of what is installed and also recommends upgrades in hardware combinations before the service to ensure you will get what it is you are after. It is impossible to expect high frames and everything visually perfect without the right hardware. What you get is an education that provides answers that produce results… not trial and errors.

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Reply #10 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 3:54pm

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender:
Posts: 949

hi guys,

I didn't had time yet to tweak and trial my system, I should have time during the week or at the latest next week-end.
I would like to share with you some XP tweaks I found on the net. I can't guarantee anything, I tried it and found my computer faster. but no figures to prove anything, just a feeling...
1- run NTFS system with a cluster size of 4096 bytes...
2- disable last file access stamping to save ressources
3- turn off windows indexing: increase perfs
4- increase your file system cache by changing the RAM usage priority from programs to system cache
5- increase CPU priority through REGEDIT to 38 decimal
6-defrag your disks- MFT and paging file
7- creat a paging file in addition to the existing one on your additional HD if any...

I'm not expert, so I can say if there is any real benefits, I did it, and didn't crash my comp, neither seen any decrease in perfs. I even find it faster...

If any experts can comments this, it would be of help to anyone...

thanks
vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #11 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 5:04pm

Jakemaster Ex Member

Quote:

He will need to experiment with the frame rate lock... It may need to come up to between 24-30

As for 33 on an x700 ATI card... that would appear too high but every system is different. I would say 28 would be a better choice for that card... but it requires calibration and testing to find out.

Everyone keeps saying that the X700 sucks and I wont get anything out of it, but I guess Im doing something different cause I have a good sim that with framse unlocked in clear weather hits 50 or higher FPS, and if I lock at 33 I hit it no problem except in large amounts of clouds with multiple layers

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Reply #12 - Jun 25^th, 2006 at 7:17pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

hi guys,

I didn't had time yet to tweak and trial my system, I should have time during the week or at the latest next week-end.
I would like to share with you some XP tweaks I found on the net. I can't guarantee anything, I tried it and found my computer faster. but no figures to prove anything, just a feeling...
1- run NTFS system with a cluster size of 4096 bytes...
2- disable last file access stamping to save ressources
3- turn off windows indexing: increase perfs
4- increase your file system cache by changing the RAM usage priority from programs to system cache
5- increase CPU priority through REGEDIT to 38 decimal
6-defrag your disks- MFT and paging file
7- creat a paging file in addition to the existing one on your additional HD if any...

I'm not expert, so I can say if there is any real benefits, I did it, and didn't crash my comp, neither seen any decrease in perfs. I even find it faster...

If any experts can comments this, it would be of help to anyone...

thanks
vince

#1: That should be the file system and cluster size Windows XP was installed on.

#2: That is a good tweak but make sure you do not need the time stamp. I personally do not disable it because I sometimes work with a large number of graphics files and the timestamp makes it possible for me to not get confused as to the most recent update.

#3: Another good tweak... make sure indexing is shut down correctly... from both the services AND the drives themselves.

#4: DO NOT SWITCH THE SYSTEM TO LARGE CACHE THAT IS A BULLs**** FIX WHICH WILL ACTUALLY DECREASE PERFORMANCE. KEEP THE CACHE TO NORMAL AND FOR PROGRAMS. With ATI video cards.. that tweak is known for trashing the entire OS. SET IT BACK TO NORMAL USE.

#5: I do not know where '38' came from for CPU priority but I would not screw with that unless you KNOW what you are doing. I have never heard of "38" being used for that entry. EDIT: If you meant decimal 38 and not hex 38, then I understand the setting... yes, it can help.

#6: Good advice, but make sure you use a good professional defrager such as O&O Defrag.

#7: Another hogwash tweak... it was good to move the swapfile for Windows 98 and Mill when hardware was slower but as of Windows XP, newer HDD's and assuming you have at least 768mb or physical memory, moving the swapfile is bullS***. If you have 1gig or less, set page file to "LET WINDOWS HANDLE IT" If you run 2gigs, set to a static 1.5x.. for 3 or more gigs of PM, you can shut down the page file or set to a static 1.5x.

« Last Edit: Jun 25^th, 2006 at 11:21pm by N/A »

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Reply #13 - Jun 26^th, 2006 at 11:51am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender:
Posts: 949

here we are... I did some trials today. only on FS9 setting didn't change anything to XP yet...

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT= 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS= 4.5
TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

PAN_RATE=900
AA=OFF
trilinear filtering, mip map 4, and rendered lights 8

vid card AA 4X, AF 16x

the results is really better, I still have blurries but less and further miles forward of A/C.

I found out that mip map filtering set to bilinear on the video card settings in addition to trilinear in FS9 was better, not sure it is really, or it's a good thing to do.

tommorrow I'll change XP setting as you said and will make screenshots to show you the difference.

what about vid card setting? here are mines:
AA: 4x
AF: 16X
performance: Hi quality
vertical synchronisation: activated
mi mapping: bilinear
texture smoothing*: activated *not sure of the translation

there are few settings I cannot control like trilinear optimisation, but I guess it may be for higher vid cards...

thanks for your help

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #14 - Jun 26^th, 2006 at 9:58pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

here we are... I did some trials today. only on FS9 setting didn't change anything to XP yet...

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT= 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS= 4.5
TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

PAN_RATE=900
AA=OFF
trilinear filtering, mip map 4, and rendered lights 8

vid card AA 4X, AF 16x

the results is really better, I still have blurries but less and further miles forward of A/C.

I found out that mip map filtering set to bilinear on the video card settings in addition to trilinear in FS9 was better, not sure it is really, or it's a good thing to do.

tommorrow I'll change XP setting as you said and will make screenshots to show you the difference.

what about vid card setting? here are mines:
AA: 4x
AF: 16X
performance: Hi quality
vertical synchronisation: activated
mi mapping: bilinear
texture smoothing*: activated *not sure of the translation

there are few settings I cannot control like trilinear optimisation, but I guess it may be for higher vid cards...

thanks for your help

vince

When it comes to the video drivers on the card you are running... I can't help that much. That is where FS-GS would be of great benefit. FS-GS can tell you what your video card should be set to, in balance with the FS9.cfg file. Baring an FS-GS service you will need to experiment to see what works best.

I would make sure render to texture is enabled in the sim... The rest is going to be trial and error.

More than likely you are also being hit by clouds and autogen. These are items you will need to experiment with as well. On clouds I have always run a low poly set of clouds with settings @ 60m - 40m - 3d to 100% and detailed clouds to MAXIMUM. The registered version of FSUIPC can also be set up to layer the clouds, something FS-GS also does wonders with in terms of making cloud layers realistic, thick and without the load.

I would also see if raising the frame rate to 24-28 helps along with dropping the PAN_RATE and Texture multipiler to: 680/240

That's all I can suggest other than try good quality ground textures and clouds, such as Ground Environment and Flight Environment. Use the low poly, DXT3 clouds in Flight Environment

« Last Edit: Jun 27^th, 2006 at 10:57am by N/A »

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Reply #15 - Jun 26^th, 2006 at 10:04pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

Everyone keeps saying that the X700 sucks and I wont get anything out of it, but I guess Im doing something different cause I have a good sim that with framse unlocked in clear weather hits 50 or higher FPS, and if I lock at 33 I hit it no problem except in large amounts of clouds with multiple layers

I never said your card sucks.. I used a 9800 pro for several years as was quite satisfied with the results for what the card could do. You can also try the suggestions in this thread and see if they help but a totally smooth and sharp looking sim in cities such as Seattle or NYC with cloud cover requires better hardware that what you are running.

EDIT: Unlimited frame rate is only used to calibrate the sim or check for problems... running unlimited frames takes away from details and distance scenery. If you like it and it works for you.. run it.

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Reply #16 - Jun 28^th, 2006 at 9:39am

FridayChild Offline
Colonel
Well on the way, head
in the clouds
Italia

Gender:
Posts: 1573

I can hear that old Etta James tune... "Aaaat laaaaaast....." Cheesy

Cheesy

Seriously, here comes finally my long asked-for wished-for begged-for list of fs9.cfg tweaks. Grin

Grin

Most settings match my current ones; some don't and I will try them ASAP.

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.

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Reply #17 - Jun 28^th, 2006 at 9:48am

Jakemaster Ex Member

Quote:

I never said your card sucks.. I used a 9800 pro for several years as was quite satisfied with the results for what the card could do. You can also try the suggestions in this thread and see if they help but a totally smooth and sharp looking sim in cities such as Seattle or NYC with cloud cover requires better hardware that what you are running.

EDIT: Unlimited frame rate is only used to calibrate the sim or check for problems... running unlimited frames takes away from details and distance scenery. If you like it and it works for you.. run it.

I dont run unlimited, I just did at one point to see where to set my FPS

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Reply #18 - Jun 28^th, 2006 at 4:52pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

I can hear that old Etta James tune... "Aaaat laaaaaast....." Cheesy

Cheesy

Seriously, here comes finally my long asked-for wished-for begged-for list of fs9.cfg tweaks. Grin

Grin

Most settings match my current ones; some don't and I will try them ASAP.

Not sure what your talking about... everything in this thread has been posted at over 20 sites I know of and has been in circulation for just about 2 years.

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Reply #19 - Jun 28^th, 2006 at 5:08pm

FridayChild Offline
Colonel
Well on the way, head
in the clouds
Italia

Gender:
Posts: 1573

But now it bears the NickN Seal of Approval; doesn't it? Wink

Wink

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.

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Reply #20 - Jun 28^th, 2006 at 9:48pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

But now it bears the NickN Seal of Approval; doesn't it? Wink

Wink

Not really... It bears a list of things they can try that I have had good results changing but that does not mean it will make anything better.

As I posted earlier... it's a balance of the entire system including settings, hardware, drivers, textures, updates, etc...

No 2 systems are the same.. even systems with identical hardware will require different tweaks.

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Reply #21 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 6:05am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender:
Posts: 949

ok guys,

here are some news... I had been rather busy the last two days and didn't had enough time to trial anything.
but I decided to desinstall everything, add-ons, and FS9, and I will do a clean reinstall of FS9, its patch, only one set of mesh, the few addons you talked about, planes and that's it.

My previous intallation was a rather "dirty" one, with many addons installed on top of others... this couldn't help to run FS9 smoothly...

so, stay tuned Wink

Wink

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #22 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 10:35am

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

ok guys,

here are some news... I had been rather busy the last two days and didn't had enough time to trial anything.
but I decided to desinstall everything, add-ons, and FS9, and I will do a clean reinstall of FS9, its patch, only one set of mesh, the few addons you talked about, planes and that's it.

My previous intallation was a rather "dirty" one, with many addons installed on top of others... this couldn't help to run FS9 smoothly...

so, stay tuned Wink

Wink

vince

Make sure you install the patch per Microsoft's instructions... the installer must go inside the Microsoft games\Flight Simulator 9 folder and then run from there. If you do not put it inside the FS9 folder before running, it will corrupt your dll files in the update process.

Do not import a FS9.cfg file... start with a 100% fresh one. Boot the sim and make all the settings, close the sim and then make the FS9.cfg edits.

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Reply #23 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 10:38am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender:
Posts: 949

Quote:

Make sure you install the patch per Microsoft's instructions... the installer must go inside the Microsoft games\Flight Simulator 9 folder and then run from there. If you do not put it inside the FS9 folder before running, it will corrupt your dll files in the update process.

oups...

Roll Eyes

didn't read the instructions...

Cry

Cry

same player shoot again...

tks
vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #24 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 10:54am

Fly2e Offline
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Agreed with Nick!
Also, you may want to make sure your scenery cfg folder is all nice and neat Wink

Wink

By that I mean
1 with 1
2 with 2
3 with 3
etc....

Aye, frame rates and the many stories around it.
The object here is not to see how high it can go, but what works the best with your system.
In reality, you might think that you can run a high number, and you are getting high frame rates, but is everything loading correctly? Is everything clear? Are your tiles loading in a smooth manner because your frame rate is working in conjunction with loading those tiles?
Maybe not because your frame rate is set too high!

Heard the saying, "less is more"?

As long as you are above the 24fps, your eye will not pick any difference up.

Changing your frame rate by 1 or 2 numbers, can change the load times and performance of your sim. The trick is finding your "target frame rate".
FS-GS takes you through a process of finding out exactly what your average frame rate is. From there it is a fine tweak to see exactly where you should be on your fps.

When I hear of people saying, "I get 40, 100, 250 fps, I laugh because right there with that statement, they have no understanding of what this setting is for and how it is integrated into the performance and smoothness of how your sim operates.

Slow down a bit and let the world around you soak in, you don't need to go through life at 250 fps! Wink

Wink

Interesting read!
http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2005/11/the_blurries.shtml

Dave

Intel Core i7 Extreme Processor 965, 4.2GHz/8MB L3 Cache, Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Intel X58 Chipset Cross
Fire & SLI Supported, Mushkin Redline 6GB (3X2GB) Memory, eVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285, Vista 64.

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Reply #25 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 10:59am

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

oups...

Roll Eyes

didn't read the instructions...

Cry

Cry

same player shoot again...

tks
vince

LOL

That right there can cause blurries... the patch, amoung other fixes, repairs a memory hole in autogen which eats up resources.

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Reply #26 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 12:01pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

I dont run unlimited, I just did at one point to see where to set my FPS

The x700 is very close to the 9800pro... I would suggest somewhere between 24-28fps but it really depends on the rest of the system.

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Reply #27 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 2:26pm

FridayChild Offline
Colonel
Well on the way, head
in the clouds
Italia

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What lowest/highest value would you recommend as the target frame rate on a 6600GT?

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.

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Reply #28 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 3:33pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

What lowest/highest value would you recommend as the target frame rate on a 6600GT?

I could not tell you that... try starting 24 and bump it up one or two frames after testing for a while.

There is no set "high" or "low" for any card... there are some systems out there using 28 with 9800pro's and the same card runs better @ 22-24 in another system. You have now come to the point wher the FS-GS service is required to calibrate the frames based on the system as it is set up.

Trial and error is the only other way to set frames... and from my year of screwing with it, I found I was off by 4 frames even when I thought I had it perfect.

EDIT:

Here is where you guys need to understand system balance and the frame lock…

CPU type/CPU speed + Motherboard type + motherboard BIOS settings + Memory amount + memory settings + hard drive type/Hard drive speed + storage system controller + system drivers (all) + video card type + video card setup + O/S setup + FS9 setup + FS9.cfg + FS9 add-on’s + FS9 calibration = FRAME LOCK

Now lets suppose before FS9 calibration you managed to get everything in the above list set PERFECT (With the exception of the hardware and most of the O/S... I didn't and I am an electrical engineer) You still need to calibrate the sim for frames. On top of that, identical electronics can display different performance properties, especially when you put in the mix a O/S that renders a different performance curve on identical hardware!

It must all be in balance and then calibrated for FS9.

Also, You change 1 setting or 1 item above and then:

CHANGE + FS9 Calibration = FRAME LOCK

That’s the bottom line.

Although there are some suggestions that can be made, there is no set value or “range” for frame lock, even on identical hardware systems. Period

« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2006 at 9:23pm by N/A »

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Reply #29 - Jun 29^th, 2006 at 11:24pm

Nick N Ex Member

I'm going to take it a step further here too...

You should not fly the sim with the frame counter enabled because the counter itself takes the equivalent of 3fps of system resources, meaning, you can’t look at the frame counter and say everything is A-OK.

However, when the frame counter is running, 22-24fps can look just as smooth as 34fps during any given point in a flight. Before FS-GS I was running my frame lock @ 28fps and if the sim dropped to 22, I notice it. After FS-GS I was frame locked @ 30fps. Back then I was running an x800xt and after FS-GS I did not notice a lag in smooth frames unless it dropped under 18-20. Dropping down to 14-15 is when I really started to notice. Between 20-30fps I saw no difference in how smooth the sim ran.

It is also important to note that prior to FS-GS I was not able to run massive cloud cover in a large city scenery without stutters @ 22fps. After FS-GS, 22fps and heavy cloud cover was no different than 30fps in any scenery.

That same video card in my dual xeon tower was calibrated and frame locked @ 38fps and gave the same visual results. There is no set number or "range" of numbers for the frame lock. Every system is different.

When a system is in proper balance and calibrated with FS9, the loads being applied do not have as much negative effect on frame transitions. When a system is out of balance a load which drops the frames down by 5-8+ is very easily seen.

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Reply #30 - Jun 30^th, 2006 at 5:01am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

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hi,

I'm almost done with the reinstall, but I still have to install some meshes.
Just a question, my FS9 folder is already 16.4Gb Shocked

Shocked

Shocked

, is it alright?

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #31 - Jun 30^th, 2006 at 10:40am

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

Just a question, my FS9 folder is already 16.4Gb Shocked

Shocked

Shocked

, is it alright?

vince

Mine's 52GB

It doesnt matter... However for mamimum storage performance it is best to keep the amount of data on a hard drive to 1/2 or less the total size of the hard disk. It will work on a full hard drive but access time is significantly reduced on 75%-100% full hard drive. The larger the hard drive and the less data on it, the faster the access time.

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Reply #32 - Jun 30^th, 2006 at 12:35pm

thebrelon Offline
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Posts: 949

thanks nick for your time and help.

regarding the disk space, that's something I knew. I just spend some time on FSgenesis site and forum and discovered we can install mesh in another folder than the default one. may be installing them on another disk...
and what is a buffer mesh as you mentioned in one of your first reply?
I may have one of these meshes and don't even know it...then what is the correct value for terrain extended level with these meshes 3 or 5?
reading through many different forums get me more and more confused...
start to really believe I need somebody to drive me through a proper setting...

thanks again nick

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #33 - Jun 30^th, 2006 at 5:15pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

start to really believe I need somebody to drive me through a proper setting...

thanks again nick

vince

Thats what FS-GS does... from start to finish

Buffer mesh is the LOD 4-5-6, 306, and 153. It fills in the gaps 76 and 38 does not. You can obtain just the buffer mesh or all of it, including the 76, 38, 9 and 10.

If you are going to go for allot of FSGenesis mesh (which is what I did) your best bet is to purchase the $100 membership. You have full access to all mesh and updates along with being sent all the CD's (if you order them) for free on top of having full download access. Its the best deal. After you purchase 10-12 mesh packages it adds up so the 100 dollar membership is a deal considering the amount of mesh available there.

I would not install it in a separate folder... let it install where it wants to..

...as for having scenery on another disk... that can be done IF you know what you are doing. I do not see any advantage to doing that UNLESS you use HUGE scenery, like MEGASCENERY and allot of it, AND the disk you are installing it on is a FAST RAID ARRAY or WD 16MB Raptor.

Although I fly FS9 from another Windows boot from time to time, I do not use the separate HDD method very often and typically fly FS9 from the boot O/S where all scenery/mesh in my WindowsXP installation.

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Reply #34 - Jul 1^st, 2006 at 3:41am

thebrelon Offline
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life is too short, have
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france

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Quote:

Thats what FS-GS does... from start to finish

that's exactly what I was thinking...
It wouldn't be fair to ask anybody to do that for me, in particular somebody who paid for that.

anyway, I would like to thank you nick, for all your help, your time, and all the informations. I learned a lot, and obtained a really better quality. the next step for me is probably FS-GS as I now need to optmize my system as a whole...

just a shame that FS9 doesn't come out of the box already tweaked... but thanks to the internet!!

thanks again

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #35 - Jul 1^st, 2006 at 6:09am

FridayChild Offline
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Well on the way, head
in the clouds
Italia

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Based on what's been said, it would be impossible for a game to come tweaked right out if the box since tweaking is completely based on every individual system.
What MS could have implemented is some sort of configuration templates to start off with (like "best performance"/"best appearance"/"multiplayer"...), like in Windows Server. The standard configuration is indeed very conservative and there are a few tweaks that almost any current system can benefit from.

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.

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Reply #36 - Jul 1^st, 2006 at 2:58pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

that's exactly what I was thinking...
It wouldn't be fair to ask anybody to do that for me, in particular somebody who paid for that.

anyway, I would like to thank you nick, for all your help, your time, and all the informations. I learned a lot, and obtained a really better quality. the next step for me is probably FS-GS as I now need to optmize my system as a whole...

just a shame that FS9 doesn't come out of the box already tweaked... but thanks to the internet!!

thanks again

vince

There is no such thing as a software package that comes completely ready for every type of hardware and add-on.

Take WindowsXP for example... you purchase the O/S and then it is up to you to learn how to use and optimize it for maximum performance based on your system and it's use. What is the difference between that and and any other software? Games are becoming more and more complicated and therefore it will require some education to keep up with the times.

Since FS9 is very CPU and motherboard sensitive, it requires more than just an install to maximize it's visual quality and performance. Over the last 2 years games have relied heavy on CPU-MB-GPU instead of just the GPU. That means a working knowledge of the entire system, O/S and the game is needed to see the full potential on the screen.

Welcome to the future.... It will only get more complicated with time.

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Reply #37 - Jul 3^rd, 2006 at 2:43pm

wealthysoup Offline
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Newtownards, Northern Ireland

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Quote:

I obtained a really better quality.

Fancy posting a screenshoit or 2 showing the difference?
Wink

Wink

My PC specs:&&AMD Athlon 64 3200 (@ 2.2ghz)&&Asus K8v se deluxe motherboard&&1.5gb pc3200 RAM&&128mb palit geforce 6600gt&&200gb+80gb hard drives&&21 inch CRT&&5.1 creative surround sound speakers

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Reply #38 - Jul 3^rd, 2006 at 3:23pm

thebrelon Offline
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of course!!!

it's not the same pics over seattle, are there are no really big improvement over such a large city, but...

tell me, what do you think?
this result is only by tweaking FS9, and the few XP tweaks mentioned... no comp-FS9 unification.

oh!! I forgot, my resolution is 1920*1200...

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #39 - Jul 3^rd, 2006 at 5:28pm

wealthysoup Offline
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Newtownards, Northern Ireland

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Looks lots better, although sdoes it still appear better when your flying in a fast jet, because thats when your system will be stressed the most so will have less time to make nice ground textures.

My PC specs:&&AMD Athlon 64 3200 (@ 2.2ghz)&&Asus K8v se deluxe motherboard&&1.5gb pc3200 RAM&&128mb palit geforce 6600gt&&200gb+80gb hard drives&&21 inch CRT&&5.1 creative surround sound speakers

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Reply #40 - Jul 3^rd, 2006 at 11:55pm

Nick N Ex Member

Quote:

tell me, what do you think?
this result is only by tweaking FS9, and the few XP tweaks mentioned... no comp-FS9 unification.

oh!! I forgot, my resolution is 1920*1200...

vince

Is that 1920x1200 on a LCD or CRT? Is that the native resolution of the monitor or are you forcing it a bit higher?

Those shots look allot better than what you started with.

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Reply #41 - Jul 4^th, 2006 at 9:21am

thebrelon Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender:
Posts: 949

well to be honest, with a fast jet I still have lots of blurries, but....

and 1920*1200 is the native resolution of my LCD screen, that the reason for using it....

happy you see the difference

vince

&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800 DDR3 256 Mb

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Reply #42 - Aug 2^nd, 2006 at 7:35am

Arnimon Offline
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Whats up Bugs?
Germany

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Posts: 345

Having a "short" question too... On the 1st Pics of this topic i saw some information Text at the top of the Pics. There was also an information about the actual framerate included. How do i get these infs? Unfortunately i have only the FS9 CD and no additional Handbook for it.

It looks like chicken,smells like chicken,tastes like chicken,but when Chuck Norris says its Beef...then damnit...its Beef!!!

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Reply #43 - Aug 2^nd, 2006 at 9:07am

born_2_fly Ex Member

Shift+Z

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Reply #44 - Aug 3^rd, 2006 at 2:19am

PisTon Ex Member

Also, go into your video drivers, and max everything out. Works with my X850.

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