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how to get rid off blurries? (Read 4211 times)
Jun 22nd, 2006 at 10:04am

thebrelon   Offline
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how to get rid off blurries?

this has probably been dealt already but I can't find any informations, except going through FS-GS...
The thing is I have a rather high end computer, not the latest but still very good I think, with lot's of RAM, 4gigs, and I still have the blurries. I tried some tweaks I found on the net to enhance FS9 graphics when using megascenery, which I don't use, but even if my computer seems faster the graphics are not really better.

for info, I run all sliders to the max, mip mapping 6, hardware rendered lights 7, bilinear flitering and AA on, global max texture size massive, target framerate 25.
my comp's spec are in my sig.


here are some example, it's a basic flight from seattle tacoma, with silverwing nice wheather theme, nothing more

here, the blurries start in front of the engines intakes
...      

here, in the middle of the radar
...      

the big black squares disapear usually after 1-2secs
...

as you can see the frame rate is very good but the quality is not the best...


any help welcome, thanks

vince
« Last Edit: Jun 22nd, 2006 at 5:38pm by thebrelon »  

...&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800  DDR3 256 Mb
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Reply #1 - Jun 22nd, 2006 at 1:59pm
PisTon   Ex Member

 
To get rid of them, do the following:

Go into the game, and turn MIP mapping quality to 4 in display settings, exit, and then go:

Start----->run---->type "%appdata%\Microsoft\FS9" without quotes----> press enter--->backup a file called fs9.cfg---> Open up fs9.CFG with notepad or wordpad.

Ok, now you need to find the following lines, and change them to the same ones as I display here.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=1

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

Since you are were flying in a fast jet, and changing areas quickly, you can try changing the Extended level value to 5.

I have noticed no slowdown when using this tweak, and my system is almost identical as yours, only my video card is faster.

Don't forget to tell us if it worked Wink
 
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Reply #2 - Jun 22nd, 2006 at 5:37pm

thebrelon   Offline
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life is too short, have
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france

Gender: male
Posts: 949
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thanks for your reply pisTon.
I did exactly what you wrote and have to admit it's better. still not as good as I would like but it has already improved. thanks.
I'll post some screenshot tomorrow to show the difference

edit: here are the pics. I used the same flight except the weather theme which is FS9 default fair weather

...      ...      ...

you can see the difference, despite it's still quite blurred, it's better. thanks pisTon!

If anybody knows some more tweaks... you're welcome

vince
« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2006 at 4:50am by thebrelon »  

...&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800  DDR3 256 Mb
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Reply #3 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 2:28pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 

90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF

 
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Reply #4 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 5:33pm

thebrelon   Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
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france

Gender: male
Posts: 949
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wow!!!!
that's a lot of informations. thank you nick.

I'll try these tweaks in the following days when I'll have some free time to properly set the sim and do the comparison.

I'll keep you informed anyway.

thanks again
vince
 

...&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800  DDR3 256 Mb
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Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 1:06am
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
Quote:
90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF



Why did you say to raise the framerate limit to 22?  I have mine set at 33 cause the sim was averaging about 32 so I made the limit 33 to give it a little buffer and yet try to acheive that unification (which, by the way, seems to have worked.  Still nowhere NEAR fsgs quality, but better)
 
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Reply #6 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 5:51am
PisTon   Ex Member

 
Quote:
90% of blurries are caused by the system being overtaxed and all resources going to the model and direct area around it. FS9 focuses on that part first, then, and resources left over goes to the extended visual radius. The rest of the problem can lie in the textures you are using not being correctly designed and taxing the system.

Speed also plays a role in that. With a slower video card and flying Mach 1-2, the velocity creates another problem for the hardware to deal with...

Assuming the ground textures were designed correctly, start thinking in terms of reducing the resource killers but keep in mind your hardware does have limits you may not be able to overcome in all situations.

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20 <- Raise to 22

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=900 <--Bulls****, no such number, maximum setting is 400... Set this to 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000 <---Also try 4.5 (no zero's)

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1 (5 does not exist on this setting and it cannot be any higher than 1 unless you have full buffer mesh installed from FSGenesis)

PAN_RATE=900 <---try 900

The TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT and the PAN_RATE must be set to balance each other. If you reduce the PAN_RATE you must reduce the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT... a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio between those numbers is a good rule of thumb however those settings in combination with the TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS helps quite a bit with resource distribution and therefore helps clear up blurriness.

Also, ALWAYS set to TRILINEAR filtering. Mip to 4 and hardware lights 8. Global Texture to MASSIVE.

AA=OFF, never ON in the sim... set AA in you video drivers, generally a setting of 4 is fine.. Bump AF in you video drivers up to 16x. you can also try 2xAA and 8xAF ot 4xAA and 8xAF


Thank you for correcting me, however saying Quote:
Bulls****,
when I am trying to help someone isn't funny   Cry Undecided Sad Embarrassed

Also, why set max fps to 22?
 
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Reply #7 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 12:39pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Why did you say to raise the framerate limit to 22?  I have mine set at 33 cause the sim was averaging about 32 so I made the limit 33 to give it a little buffer and yet try to acheive that unification (which, by the way, seems to have worked.  Still nowhere NEAR fsgs quality, but better)



He will need to experiment with the frame rate lock... It may need to come up to between 24-30

As for 33 on an x700 ATI card... that would appear too high but every system is different. I would say 28 would be a better choice for that card... but it requires calibration and testing to find out.
 
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Reply #8 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 12:42pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Thank you for correcting me, however saying
when I am trying to help someone isn't funny   Cry Undecided Sad Embarrassed

Also, why set max fps to 22?



1. Dont take it personally... and i am sorry if it offended you


2. He will need to experiment with the framelock. The 20 you suggested is way too low for that video card. 22 was a better choice to experiment with blurries. 24-28 would probably be a better choice for the frame lock but he will need to experiment with it.






 
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Reply #9 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 3:02pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
wow!!!!
that's a lot of informations. thank you nick.

I'll try these tweaks in the following days when I'll have some free time to properly set the sim and do the comparison.

I'll keep you informed anyway.

thanks again
vince



There are many, many things that cause blurries… Blurred visuals are a sign of the system not being in balance. It can be caused by everything from incorrect FS9 scenery settings, FS9.cfg settings,… to anything that sucks up CPU cycles such as hard drive access and sound issues. It can be cause by background services and programs if the system is not high end. Improper installtion (or not installed) FS9.1 update can cause them. They can also be caused by a developer who did not mip-map scenery or aircraft textures or (usually) a combination of all of the above.

The list goes on and on…

That’s what you are paying for with FS-GS… the elimination of things that cause blurred visual, stutters, overall low quality visual experience and learning how to keep your sim in order when you install new add-ons. You can only accomplish so much with the hardware you have. FS-GS teaches the user how to get the most out of what is installed and also recommends upgrades in hardware combinations before the service to ensure you will get what it is you are after. It is impossible to expect high frames and everything visually perfect without the right hardware. What you get is an education that provides answers that produce results… not trial and errors.
 
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Reply #10 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 3:54pm

thebrelon   Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender: male
Posts: 949
*****
 
hi guys,

I didn't had time yet to tweak and trial my system, I should have time during the week or at the latest next week-end.
I would like to share with you some XP tweaks I found on the net. I can't guarantee anything, I tried it and found my computer faster. but no figures to prove anything, just a feeling...
1- run NTFS system with a cluster size of 4096 bytes...
2- disable last file access stamping to save ressources
3- turn off windows indexing: increase perfs
4- increase your file system cache by changing the RAM usage priority from programs to system cache
5- increase CPU priority through REGEDIT to 38 decimal
6-defrag your disks- MFT and paging file
7- creat a paging file in addition to the existing one on your additional HD if any...

I'm not expert, so I can say if there is any real benefits, I did it, and didn't crash my comp, neither seen any decrease in perfs. I even find it faster...

If any experts can comments this, it would be of help to anyone...


thanks
vince
 

...&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800  DDR3 256 Mb
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Reply #11 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 5:04pm
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
Quote:
He will need to experiment with the frame rate lock... It may need to come up to between 24-30

As for 33 on an x700 ATI card... that would appear too high but every system is different. I would say 28 would be a better choice for that card... but it requires calibration and testing to find out.


Everyone keeps saying that the X700 sucks and I wont get  anything out of it, but I guess Im doing something different cause I have a good sim that with framse unlocked in clear weather hits 50 or higher FPS, and if I lock at 33 I hit it no problem except in large amounts of clouds with multiple layers
 
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Reply #12 - Jun 25th, 2006 at 7:17pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
hi guys,

I didn't had time yet to tweak and trial my system, I should have time during the week or at the latest next week-end.
I would like to share with you some XP tweaks I found on the net. I can't guarantee anything, I tried it and found my computer faster. but no figures to prove anything, just a feeling...
1- run NTFS system with a cluster size of 4096 bytes...
2- disable last file access stamping to save ressources
3- turn off windows indexing: increase perfs
4- increase your file system cache by changing the RAM usage priority from programs to system cache
5- increase CPU priority through REGEDIT to 38 decimal
6-defrag your disks- MFT and paging file
7- creat a paging file in addition to the existing one on your additional HD if any...

I'm not expert, so I can say if there is any real benefits, I did it, and didn't crash my comp, neither seen any decrease in perfs. I even find it faster...

If any experts can comments this, it would be of help to anyone...


thanks
vince


#1: That should be the file system and cluster size Windows XP was installed on.

#2: That is a good tweak but make sure you do not need the time stamp. I personally do not disable it because I sometimes work with a large number of graphics files and the timestamp makes it possible for me to not get confused as to the most recent update.

#3: Another good tweak... make sure indexing is shut down correctly... from both the services AND the drives themselves.

#4: DO NOT SWITCH THE SYSTEM TO LARGE CACHE THAT IS A BULLs**** FIX WHICH WILL ACTUALLY DECREASE PERFORMANCE. KEEP THE CACHE TO NORMAL AND FOR PROGRAMS. With ATI video cards.. that tweak is known for trashing the entire OS. SET IT BACK TO NORMAL USE.

#5: I do not know where '38' came from for CPU priority but I would not screw with that unless you KNOW what you are doing. I have never heard of "38" being used for that entry. EDIT: If you meant decimal 38 and not hex 38, then I understand the setting... yes, it can help.

#6: Good advice, but make sure you use a good professional defrager such as O&O Defrag.

#7: Another hogwash tweak... it was good to move the swapfile for Windows 98 and Mill when hardware was slower but as of Windows XP, newer HDD's and assuming you have at least 768mb or physical memory, moving the swapfile is bullS***. If you have 1gig or less, set page file to "LET WINDOWS HANDLE IT" If you run 2gigs, set to a static 1.5x.. for 3 or more gigs of PM, you can shut down the page file or set to a static 1.5x.

« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2006 at 11:21pm by N/A »  
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Reply #13 - Jun 26th, 2006 at 11:51am

thebrelon   Offline
Colonel
life is too short, have
fun!!
france

Gender: male
Posts: 949
*****
 
here we are... I did some trials today. only on FS9 setting didn't change anything to XP yet...


UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=22 

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT= 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000 

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS= 4.5
TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

PAN_RATE=900
AA=OFF
trilinear filtering, mip map 4, and rendered lights 8

vid card AA 4X, AF 16x

the results is really better, I still have blurries but less and further miles forward of A/C.

I found out that mip map filtering set to bilinear on the video card settings in addition to trilinear in FS9 was better, not sure it is really, or it's a good thing to do.

tommorrow I'll change XP setting as you said and will make screenshots to show you the difference.

what about vid card setting? here are mines:
AA: 4x
AF: 16X
performance: Hi quality
vertical synchronisation: activated
mi mapping: bilinear
texture smoothing*: activated           *not sure of the translation

there are few settings I cannot control like trilinear optimisation, but I guess it may be for higher vid cards...

thanks for your help

vince
 

...&&laptop: kenitec D900TV&&Pentium 4 3.4gHz HT&&4Gb corsair DDR II 533MHZ&&2x 60Gb Hard drive&&Nvidia geforce 6800  DDR3 256 Mb
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Reply #14 - Jun 26th, 2006 at 9:58pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Quote:
here we are... I did some trials today. only on FS9 setting didn't change anything to XP yet...


UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=22  

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT= 400

TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=9.000000  

TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS= 4.5
TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=1

PAN_RATE=900
AA=OFF
trilinear filtering, mip map 4, and rendered lights 8

vid card AA 4X, AF 16x

the results is really better, I still have blurries but less and further miles forward of A/C.

I found out that mip map filtering set to bilinear on the video card settings in addition to trilinear in FS9 was better, not sure it is really, or it's a good thing to do.

tommorrow I'll change XP setting as you said and will make screenshots to show you the difference.

what about vid card setting? here are mines:
AA: 4x
AF: 16X
performance: Hi quality
vertical synchronisation: activated
mi mapping: bilinear
texture smoothing*: activated           *not sure of the translation

there are few settings I cannot control like trilinear optimisation, but I guess it may be for higher vid cards...

thanks for your help

vince


When it comes to the video drivers on the card you are running... I can't help that much. That is where FS-GS would be of great benefit. FS-GS can tell you what your video card should be set to, in balance with the FS9.cfg file. Baring an FS-GS service you will need to experiment to see what works best.

I would make sure render to texture is enabled in the sim... The rest is going to be trial and error.

More than likely you are also being hit by clouds and autogen. These are items you will need to experiment with as well. On clouds I have always run a low poly set of clouds with settings @ 60m - 40m - 3d to 100% and detailed clouds to MAXIMUM. The registered version of FSUIPC can also be set up to layer the clouds, something FS-GS also does wonders with in terms of making cloud layers realistic, thick and without the load.

I would also see if raising the frame rate to 24-28 helps along with dropping the PAN_RATE and Texture multipiler to: 680/240

That's all I can suggest other than try good quality ground textures and clouds, such as Ground Environment and Flight Environment. Use the low poly, DXT3 clouds in Flight Environment


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2006 at 10:57am by N/A »  
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