Simviation Forum - Big Beautiful Doll has a little problem...

Reply #15 - May 20^th, 2006 at 11:30am

beefhole Offline
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Well, obviously it was not necissary for them to immediately land, as there was no imminent danger to the aircraft or its inhabitants. However, I do believe they should have made a radio call. When something large falls off your plane over a populated area, informing ATC will make things a lot easier for you. If I lost, say, a window out of my 172, I simply would've made a call like "Philly approach be advised I just lost a window over..." That way, there's no second guessing your actions later.

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Reply #16 - May 20^th, 2006 at 11:32am

Theis Offline
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I couldn't help wondeing what the German media makes of all those little swastikas painted below the missing canopy. I thought it was illegal to display the swastika in Germany on a German aircraft, never mind an American one.

Germany has a certain § 86 in its criminal code prohibiting any display of the swastika. This § includes exceptions - historical documentation, education, wartime artifacts (including aircrafts) (medals received in WW2 have to be purged of the swastika for public display, though)

Bar by Mees

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Reply #17 - May 20^th, 2006 at 1:04pm

C Offline
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Well, obviously it was not necissary for them to immediately land, as there was no imminent danger to the aircraft or its inhabitants. However, I do believe they should have made a radio call. When something large falls off your plane over a populated area, informing ATC will make things a lot easier for you. If I lost, say, a window out of my 172, I simply would've made a call like "Philly approach be advised I just lost a window over..." That way, there's no second guessing your actions later.

Even if he tried to make a call (and I haven't seen anything to say he didn't) there is no guarantee that ATC would know what he was talking about, or whether they'd be able to hear him at all anyway, as he was using a helmet mounted boom mic.

As I've said though, try making yourself heard when you're standing/sitting in open air 6ft behind 12 exhaust stubbs of a Roll Royce Merlin...

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Reply #18 - May 20^th, 2006 at 1:25pm

Hagar Offline
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I would like to see a more reliable report before accusing anyone of anything, especially if the German media is anything like ours. Roll Eyes

I'm not familiar with the P-51D canopy but in my experience these are a pretty hefty chunk of hardware. I reckon they were very lucky that it didn't damage either them or the aircraft when it came off. Also extremely lucky that it didn't hit anyone when it fell from a great height. This could easily have killed someone.

From the other photo from Steven's link the radio mast that is mounted directly aft of the canopy looks undamaged.

I've seen reports that the pilot phoned the owner directly after landing & then did a runner, presumably back to England. Now that seems strange as the chap in the front seat in that photo looks very much like Rob Davies who owns & displays BBD. Rob Davies is a highly experienced display pilot & a respected businessman. I don't think he's the type to duck his responsibilities. http://www.woodchurchwarbirds.com/rob1.htm

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Reply #19 - May 20^th, 2006 at 1:29pm

beefhole Offline
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Even if he tried to make a call (and I haven't seen anything to say he didn't) there is no guarantee that ATC would know what he was talking about, or whether they'd be able to hear him at all anyway, as he was using a helmet mounted boom mic.

As I've said though, try making yourself heard when you're standing/sitting in open air 6ft behind 12 exhaust stubbs of a Roll Royce Merlin...

Well, I was about to respond that I would have at least tried for the purposes of covering my own ass, but I guess a garbled and incoherent message is worse than no message at all, because it will cause confusion.

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Rob Davies is a highly experienced display pilot & a respected businessman. I don't think he's the type to duck his responsibilities.

No one said anything about ducking responsibilities Doug. He was not obligated to contact ATC, it is a questionable choice however. Very well may have been the right one.

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Reply #20 - May 20^th, 2006 at 1:33pm

Hagar Offline
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No one said anything about ducking responsibilities Doug. He was not obligated to contact ATC, it is a questionable choice however. Very well may have been the right one.

Well, as Charlie points out, we don't know for certain that he didn't. Media reports aren't noted for being accurate.

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Reply #21 - May 20^th, 2006 at 1:34pm

C Offline
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I've seen reports that the pilot phoned the owner directly after landing & then did a runner, presumably back to England. Now that seems strange as the chap in the front seat in that photo looks very much like Rob Davies who owns & displays BBD.

Exactly why I was very sceptical of the reports, as it is indeed Rob Davies in the front!

As for the canopy, apparently it is quite (relatively) light, contrary to what I thought (can't remember the exact figure that I saw...)...

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Reply #22 - May 20^th, 2006 at 3:10pm

expat Offline
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Germany has a certain § 86 in its criminal code prohibiting any display of the swastika. This § includes exceptions - historical documentation, education, wartime artifacts (including aircrafts) (medals received in WW2 have to be purged of the swastika for public display, though)

I think you will find that once an aircraft is in the display, the offending markings are normally blanked out as a standard practice. I have never seen a historical aircraft, in a display or museum here in German dispalying the swastica.

Matt

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