Simviation Forum - Starting engines #'s seem wrong?

Apr 30^th, 2006 at 8:46pm

JBaymore Offline
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When I do a manual startup of the four engines on my BAe 146-200, it appears that the placement of engine #1, #2, #3, and #4 is incorrect.

When I start engine #2......... which should be the inboard engine on the left wing......... the inboard engine on the right wing starts!

The others seem to be correct.

Is this a universal problem with the sim....... or is it particular to my BAe 146?

How do I fix it?

best,

...........john

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Reply #1 - Apr 30^th, 2006 at 11:02pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Check the [GeneralEngineData] section of the aircraft.cfg file. Engine.1 position should be your inside left (coordinates are z,x,y), so that the second number should be negative.

[GeneralEngineData] engine_type= 0 Engine.0= 6.080, -26.080, 1.500 Engine.1= 8.660, -12.330, 1.000 <--- Left inside engineEngine.2= 8.660, 12.330, 1.000 Engine.3= 6.080, 26.080, 1.500 fuel_flow_scalar= 1.000 min_throttle_limit=0.000000

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #2 - May 1^st, 2006 at 4:45am

microlight Offline
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Hi Felix.

John's made an interesting point here, because the auto-starting sequence (Ctrl+E) doesn't seem to have any bearing on the engine locations in the cfg file. My BAe 146s should start in the sequence 3241 according to the lateral locations in the cfg file (14, -14,22,-22), but from the 2D cockpit view they always start 1,2,3,4 - and from spot view outside, they start 1,3,2,4! Not sure if this is a 'feature' of FS9...

To complicate things further, manually starting the engines in the cockpit doesn't help. Engine 3 switch starts port outboard (1) in spot view, 2 starts starboard inboard (3), 4 starts starboard outboard (4) and 1 starts port inboard (2). So switch 4 seems to be the only one that start the correct engine!

Curiouser and curiouser.

Wink

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Reply #3 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:20am

Milton Offline
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The engines are named in the model, 0-3 equating to 1-4. Regardless of how you define them position-wise in the cfg, they will start the way they are named in the model, 0,1,2,3 (1,2,3,4) when cntrl+e is used. All other engine related programming is connected to how the modeled engines are named.

Milton&&Dash 7, Aero Commanders, Howard 500, D18S, Spartan, XP47J, Beechcraft A28 (Grizzly)

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Reply #4 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:38am

JBaymore Offline
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Quote:

John's made an interesting point here, because the auto-starting sequence (Ctrl+E) doesn't seem to have any bearing on the engine locations in the cfg file.

microlite,

Aside from getting some of the details wrong...... Wink

8)........... yes it is an interesting problem. You describned it far better.

I can wire my starting switches on the simpit overhead so that the model appearance is correct. But still, all of the other readings of engine fuel flow, vibration, pressures and so on apparently will still relate to the "wrong" engine.

Quote:

The engines are named in the model, 0-3 equating to 1-4. Regardless of how you define them position-wise in the cfg, they will start the way they are named in the model, 0,1,2,3 (1,2,3,4) when cntrl+e is used. All other engine related programming is connected to how the modeled engines are named.

Milton... thanks for the info... I think. Wink

To get this straight ........ what you are saying is that there is no way to correct this in the .cfg or the .air file then?

Would I be correct in saying that when I look at the gauges / switches that are labeled for engine #3 in the cockpit, that these readings / settings are all set up for the "model defined" engine #3..... not the visually modeled engine that is located where engine #3 is supposed to be?

best,

.......................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #5 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:43am

microlight Offline
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Thanks, Milton - it hadn't occurred to me that it might be a model issue.

Wink

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Reply #6 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:46am

JBaymore Offline
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Quote:

Check the [GeneralEngineData] section of the aircraft.cfg file. Engine.1 position should be your inside left (coordinates are z,x,y), so that the second number should be negative.

[GeneralEngineData] engine_type= 0 Engine.0= 6.080, -26.080, 1.500 Engine.1= 8.660, -12.330, 1.000 <--- Left inside engineEngine.2= 8.660, 12.330, 1.000 Engine.3= 6.080, 26.080, 1.500 fuel_flow_scalar= 1.000 min_throttle_limit=0.000000

FElix,

I will check this in ACM shortly and post the result here.

best,

.........john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #7 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:57am

JBaymore Offline
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Felix + all,

OK.... just checked the engine positions on the Murchison BAe -146-200 model in ACM, and then also on the newer "Strategic" military model too. They are both set up exactly the same (which leads me to a question....see below).

Left hand wing has #1 on the inboard position, right hand wing has #2 on the inboard position, left hand wing has the #3 on the outboard position, and right hand wing has the #4 on the outboard position.

SO they are: ----#3----#1---||||---#2----#4----

So as to the question.......... is it possible that the BAe "convention" is to number the engines in that particular order?

Quote:

.....but from the 2D cockpit view they always start 1,2,3,4 - and from spot view outside, they start 1,3,2,4! Not sure if this is a 'feature' of FS9...

...........Engine 3 switch starts port outboard (1) in spot view, 2 starts starboard inboard (3), 4 starts starboard outboard (4) and 1 starts port inboard (2). So switch 4 seems to be the only one that start the correct engine!

This CTRL E sequence doesn't seem to agree with the model map. So maybe the .cfg file has some impact? But the start switches DO match up with the engine's model numbering as noted above.

I am really wondering if the BAe engine numbering is "different" than what is "typical".

best,

.......................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #8 - May 1^st, 2006 at 9:03pm

Milton Offline
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In the model, you can certainly number them any way you want to achieve start sequence. A giveaway might be to see what cntrl+e does. That should tell you the sequence of the modeled numbers.

Then, of course, with gauge programming, you can alter the start sequence manually (or redefine what is displayed vs what engine is started 1=3, 2=4, 3=1, 4=2), or through selecting the engine (e+2 as an example), then start.

In the cfg, there is no way to my knowledge to change anything except engine location. That will not change the start sequence as far as I know.

Milton&&Dash 7, Aero Commanders, Howard 500, D18S, Spartan, XP47J, Beechcraft A28 (Grizzly)

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Reply #9 - May 4^th, 2006 at 9:22pm

JBaymore Offline
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It is clear to me now, that Jon Murchison apparently set the engines up in the model so that the Control+E autostart sequence would start the engines in the order that they are done in the "real world". So the inboard left starts first followed by the inboard right, then the outboard left and last the outboard right.

So the numbering is #3, #1, #2, #4 from left to right. So I will have to alter the connections to the overhead start panel in my simpit to reflect this numbering, so that when I start #2 on the selector there the inboard left engine starts....... which is #1 in the model Wink

.

Mystery solved, I think. Annoying though. Thanks to all who helped figure this out.

best,

.........john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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