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Pots - linear or logarithmic? (Read 649 times)
Apr 4th, 2006 at 5:24am

Padser   Offline
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~S~

I have finally got round to building my 'trim box' to supplement my CH set up with some rotary controllers for trim and prop pitch.

I used the circuit board and USB cable from an old MS Sidewinder Precision Pro with four new potentiometers (100k ohm logarithmic - about 50p a go), some knobs that fit the pot shaft (about 60p each) and a project box (I think £6).  All sourced from my local Maplin's in Banbury, UK.

Neither myself nor the chap in the shop could tell what kind of pots were in the original stick, but after I explained the purpose he came up with the logarithmic versions. They seem to work fine, too - I'm very pleased with the result, which now sits just nicely beneath my CH throttle.

My question is, though, would linear pots work as well, or better than logarithmic ones? Are joystick pots typically one or the other?

Like I said, it works fine, but I'd like to clarify this issue for future reference.

All the best,

Pads


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Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 6:33am

JBaymore   Offline
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Padser,

Nice work there...... clean and professional looking.

I am guessing that you'd really want a linear taper on the pots.  A log winding results in a very large change of resistance in a small area of the pot's total rotational travel.  When you are in that range, a small change of position will result in a large change in the Ohms value.

Linear pots spread the total resistance range of the pot (in this case 0 to 100K Ohms) out evenly over the full range of movement.

With a log pot....... if the control function for centered trim is set to the center position of the range of travel, then turning the knob one way X degrees of rotation will result in more of a resistance change (and hence rudder deflection, for example) than turning it the other way.  Not realistic to the way it works in real life... and you'd have to make a log scale for the graphical indicator on the trim box face to be accurate if you want to show the amount of rudder change there on a scale.

The linear approach will also make the control less "twitchy".

Hope these thoughts help.  Keep building and posting pictures.  Thanks.


best,

..........john

PS:  I am surprised the guy in the shopp couldn't tell you.  You can put a multimeter on the pot and notice the way the resistance changes relative to the turining of the shaft.  Linear is easy to spot.
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #2 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 9:04am

Padser   Offline
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John,

Thanks for this - I suspected that it might be the case. The response to the inputs is a little twitchy, though manageable (and in my current sim of choice it is easy to adjust for sensitivity, which mitigates this to some extent). Still, for someone of such little electronic knowledge as myself, I got a real buzz out of putting this thing together and getting it to work at all! Wink

I will have to get hold of some linear pots and break out the soldering iron out again... they are pretty cheap anyway so it won't make for an expensive experiment and now that the box is ready with holes and what not drilled it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to fix. I'll post results when I've tried it.

Re the guy in the shop - he was busy and looked pretty hassled at the time and I think may have been working outside of his area of expertise.

To give Maplin's their due though, another fellow I had spoken to on a previous occasion was both (a) excited and enthusiastic about the project and (b) really did seem to know what he was talking about - he suggested bringing the original in but unfortunately wasn't around when I went back. Typical, eh?  Roll Eyes Wink

Cheers,

Pads

PS While I think about it - the loose wire you see in the box was attached to a metal plate in the original stick (I guess it has an earthing function) - at present it's hanging loose. Would you recommend trying to earth it out?
 
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Reply #3 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 10:54am

bubba3884   Offline
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here's a link to device which is basically the guts to a large joystick. the fellow has a good description of which pots to use (linear) about 3/4 of the way down.


http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/index.html

 
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Reply #4 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 11:55am

Padser   Offline
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Thanks -  I will remember 'linear taper B' when I go to the shop next time...

If I knew how to wire a 6 x 6 matrix I might even have a go at this... I understand the principle involved - connecting row 1 to column 1 creates switch 1 when the circuit is closed, etc, but how on earth would you wire 32 separate switches to such a small component?

Am sure I'm showing my ignorance here... Wink

Cheers,

Pads
 
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Reply #5 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 9:14pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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32 switches? lol, try 101!
...
Looks like a mess doesn't it? This is a hacked keyboard controller that controls my switch panel. I do not reccomend hacking a keyboard.

The way I did it as you can see, was to attach each contact to a screw terminal. When I add a new switch, all I have to do is screw the leads in place and I'm ready to go. You can figure out what combination of contacts coresponds to which button pretty easily. Once you have all of them hooked up to the terminals, take a piece of wire and try all possible combinations. Do this with the joystick properties window (control panel>game controlers>[joystick name from list]>properties) open. watch and see which button lights up, and write down the combonation.

It isn't that easy with a keyboard, I had to use one of those monitoring programs that records keystrokes. Anyway, I hope that helps. ANd please don't hack a keyboard. Wink
 

...
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y

Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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Reply #6 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 9:18pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Padser,

Congrats on getting the electrical work done....... you are now an official "soldering iron jockey".   Wink

For controlling all sorts of switch inputs in the simpit.... see the link at the top sticky for the Hagstrom KE-72 keyboard emulator.  Handles 72 discrete inputs.  That is one unit I use in my simpit.  Easy to wire up, and the programmable non-matrix approach prevents ghosting (inadvertant incorrect keypresses).


The black wire should be a ground for the shielding on the case, I am guessing.   But it looks like your project box is plastic with no aluminized metallic spray coating.  So there is no sheilding to ground it to there.  Likely the pcb is not too sensitive to rf or emf  interference from the hardware near it.  You however won't have the ability to ground static charges easily.....so be careful in the winter touching the metal parts of the pots.


best,

..........john

 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #7 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 9:29pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Tacitblue,

Thanks for the picture!  Nice hack job there.  It is about time you posted some pix down here.   Wink   So show us the rest of the stuff you are working on.   Like the other side of the keyboard hack.... what does it hook up to?

Oh....... and please watch the image filesize just a bit   Smiley  ...... that one above is 105K....pushing the boundaries a hair.  And everyone remember ........this thread can only take about two more 100 K shots before we hit the 500 K limit in one thread.

best,

........john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #8 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 6:51pm

Padser   Offline
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Tally-Ho, chaps...

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Quote:
I'll post results when I've tried it.


Just to confirm, the 10k linear pots are excellent and give a much smoother and more even range of inputs.

This has really become part of the way I fly now  very pleased with it. Am experimenting with Leo Bodnar's clever little joystick controller now to see about adding some switches to the equation.

Just what I needed, another obsession...  Roll Eyes Wink

BTW - anyone found a way of sourcing those little plastic connectors and plugs for connecting to circuit boards like this? Had really trouble finding some today - the best I found were Futaba Servo Plug Kits - any other suggestions?

All the best,

Pads

 
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Reply #9 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 10:47pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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John,

I shrank my image a little. I didn't realize it was so big.

I'm pretty sure I posted pics of my setup once, but it would have been a long time ago, possibly a year or more. I'll try to post some more tomorrow, if anyone is really interested. Wink
 

...
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y

Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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Reply #10 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 11:14pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Tacitblue,

Of course we're interested.   Wink  It is part of this absurd hobby (simpits....not flight simming) that we are able to share our particular design solutions to fabrication / control problems.  It is all about "R+D"...................... "Rip off and Duplicate".   Grin

Please start a new thread when you do.  Thanks.

best,

.....................john

PS:  Thanks for downsizing the pix.
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #11 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 11:20pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Quote:
BTW - anyone found a way of sourcing those little plastic connectors and plugs for connecting to circuit boards like this?


Padser,

Try PartsExpress ....it is listed in the "Resources" sticky at the top of the Forum.

best,

..................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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