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thrust vectoring/VTOL/fly by wire (Read 3947 times)
Apr 1st, 2006 at 8:23am

F-16Viper   Offline
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will fsx have thrust vectoring or VTOL or fly by wire? (for F/A-22s, AV-8b harriars, and all the other combat jets for flybywire) Smiley
 

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Reply #1 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 9:08am

Crumbso   Offline
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Fly by wire is going to be a long way off I suspect. It's nigh on impossible to model now as flightsim doesn't handle unstable flight models, therefore you can't have a system built to control the instability because there is none lol.

If there is FS goes nuts and the plane flys all over the place.
 
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Reply #2 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 9:31am

expat   Offline
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We already have fly by wire..............Joy stick - wire - computer. We have been doing a long time before the big boys Grin Grin Grin Grin

Matt
 

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Reply #3 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 9:34am

elite marksman   Offline
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Fly by wire isn't just for fighters. All Airbus aircraft now use a fly-by-wire system.

I believe that you are referring to the intentional instability of some aircraft, such as the F-16, which requires a computer to constantly make small adjustments to keep the aircraft flying. This does not need to be modeled in the sim as there is a very easy workaround. In the flight model for these aircraft, the effectiveness for the controls can be adjusted so that they mimick the flight characteristics of aircraft that are inherently unstable (B-2, F-117), or ones that are intentionaly unstable (F-16). However, there is a disadvantage to the instablility of some aircraft. For example, an F-16 at 300kts is capable of loading 9G so quickly that the G-suit does not have time compensate, usually incapacitating, and potentialy killing the pilot.

As for the other two, I would love to see them, however I don't think that they will be included for two reasons. The first is that MS wants to keep the FS franchise a "civilian", thus there has been only two default military aircraft in the previous 9 iterations that I can recall, the Vaught F4U4 Corsair, and the Sopwith Camel. The Curtis J4N Jenny may be considered military, but due to the extensive civillian use after the war I do not. The other reason is programming. In a vertical-horizontal flight transition there are many variables, even a simplified version would be very difficult to program. Hopefully they will be included, but I won't be holding my breath.
 
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Reply #4 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 11:34am

flyboy 28   Offline
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I'm sure its easy enough to do in FS9, just tweak the .cfg
 
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Reply #5 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 11:48am

F-16Viper   Offline
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Quote:
I'm sure its easy enough to do in FS9, just tweak the .cfg


show me us microsoft how Grin Wink
 

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Reply #6 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 1:31pm

Mobius   Offline
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All fly-by-wire is is keeping an inherently unstable airplane (F-16) stable with minute control inputs that constantly adjust the control surfaces to allow smooth flight in an aircraft that would normally be unflyable.  It also allows for automatic use of the rudder when necessary, eliminating the need for pilot rudder inputs.  This is pretty much what elite already said, however, it is already modeled in the "auto-rudder" option (as they are inherently the same thing).

As for thrust vectoring and VTOL flight, that is something that has to be modeled into each aircraft individually.  Many FS9 aircraft already have VTOL capabilities, like the IRIS Harrier and F-35 (see pic below).  Thrust vectoring only allows an increase in agility and it allows the aircraft to maintain a certain degree of control in a post-stall flight regime, meaning the aircraft can still maneuver in a stall, or when there is no airflow over the wings, which again, would have to be modelled for each aircraft, unless a much more advanced flight model was used, which actually simulated airflow over the wings (which is very doubtful).

Pic of VTOL flight (WARNING contains PAYWARE), IRIS F-35 in a hover....
...
...
 

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Reply #7 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 3:03pm

F-16Viper   Offline
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but can it take off truly vertical, not move 5 feet then take off, and still fly like an airplane?

HERE is a demonstration.
 

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Reply #8 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 4:03pm

flyboy 28   Offline
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I think you're asking a bit much here. If you want it so bad, try yourself.
 
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Reply #9 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 6:24pm

Mobius   Offline
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And HERE is my response.  It's a super neat-o movie I made and put on putfile of the F-35 from IRIS. Grin Wink
 

...
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Reply #10 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 6:59pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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True VTOL is available in FS now...for certain planes that have received the magic treatment.

I wish I knew how it was done, I do know the basics...but the devil is in the details. Smiley
 

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly
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Reply #11 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 7:35pm

F-16Viper   Offline
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Quote:
And HERE is my response.  It's a super neat-o movie I made and put on putfile of the F-35 from IRIS. Grin Wink


HOW MUCH IS THAT!!!???

 

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Reply #12 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 10:22pm

Mobius   Offline
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IRIS F-35 Looks like $16.49 right now. Wink  If you do get it, there is a special guage out there that allows it to hover better, I can't quite remember where it is though. Embarrassed Wink
 

...
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Reply #13 - Apr 2nd, 2006 at 6:40am

Crumbso   Offline
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It is  a fantastic gauge we have it in our V-22 but it's still not a true representation of Vectored thrust. It's very very clever gauge trickery, you can tell by the way it moves.

It's important to proper simulation that FS be able to cope with thrust being off the main axis of flight, the moment a flight model becomes unstable it goes haywire. This is why it can't handle the unstable aerobatics of the Extra 300 and Sukhoi and other aircraft like it. Once this is sorted then vectoring thrust should be no problem and I think that stubborness of not allowing military aircraft is a ridiculous reason not to include it. A large amount of add-ons for FS are military.
 
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Reply #14 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 7:59pm

cleobis   Offline
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Well I don't know why some people are saying that thrust vectoring is a long way to go because it would need complex flight models for each a/c...

X-Plane has it, so I assume that if M$ wanted to use it they should be able to...

as for the excuse that flightsimulator is a "only" civil simulator, I find it very dubious...M$ might have started as a civil simulator, but nowadays it's nothing more than a platform for us to use everything you can think of...I mean...just think of what has been done:

a/c, copters, spaceships (fictional and non fictional), cars, bikes, buses, ships in evevery form,gliders, cartoon flying robots, paper a/c, etc,etc....

Please m$ just provide us with the most complete universe possible...

cheers
 

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