Simviation Forum - Watch this approach...

Feb 15^th, 2006 at 1:19am

Boss_BlueAngels Offline
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Here is some character in a Cessna 177 Cardinal RG while landing... I wanna see what you all think about it.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=4635

I'll reserve my comments for later.

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Reply #1 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 3:21am

Staiduk Offline
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Bit of a botched approach; wasn't it? Grin

Looks like he got fooled by the bluffs - Came in too high on base, turned for final too soon and wound up sinking like a stone when he chopped power trying to correct for the height. I personally don't like the idea of dropping flaps on final either.
Not great - an instructor would have a few words for him but not unusually bad IMO. He looks like a recent grad taking his friends up for the first time and got careless on the circuit. He'll improve. Grin

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Reply #2 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 10:26am

beaky Offline
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Although I'm not one to insist a "stabilized" approach is the only way to go, I agree that this guy started too high (which would only be a no-no if Tower had asked him to arrive "right base" which would imply at normal TPA), then lost altitude too soon when he descended... would've been better off waiting. No glideslope indicator there, it seems- here's a case where it might've helped.
I believe I heard Tower call wind as 030/09 when they gave his landing clearance ; if I heard right, then with the angle of that terrain drop-off, seeing as he was quite low as he got closer to it, he may very well have gotten pulled down by a bit of a downdraft. Surprised the air flowing off that bluff wasn't more turbulent...he was lucky.
Whatever the case, he basically dragged it in, and had that happened to me, I'd have used power to get back up to a normal glideslope, and sooner... There was plenty of time to fix that up, and lots of runway to work with in case his final got too long, but perhaps he was scared to pick up the nose for fear of stalling. Although with plenty of power, she'd rise without much pitch input at all.
As for the flaps, I was always taught that if that last notch is to be used, one should wait until established on final, with a very definite feeling that the runway is "made". I never go past 20 degrees on base. But he sure didn't need more flap on this approach!
I agree that he's likely pretty green- notice how elated both of them seem to be with that landing (because it was a smooth touchdown?)- or maybe they were just glad to be on the ground in one piece!! Grin

Looks like a pretty place to go flying, though- very nice.

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Reply #3 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 12:50pm

Staiduk Offline
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Yeah; I checked the island out in FS9 - it's a lovely little spot though the sim definitely doesn't do it justice.

The approach looks pretty standard; it seems to me on right traffic one makes the turn for base right over that point visible in the video - good landmarks.

As for the last notch; I agree again about dropping it when one is comitted to the landing; I just don't like it. There's no reason a serviceable and properly loaded Cardinal should need full flaps on a runway like that; and in this case they looked to be a bad move. He wasn't anywhere close to trimmed for landing when he dropped 'em and chopped power; wasting energy until he left himself 'low, slow and nowhere to go'.

It was just a sloppy show of piloting, IMO.

Of course, a show of hands of who hasn't bollixed a landing at one point or another? LOL

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Reply #4 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 3:52pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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That was a good video on how not to fly an approach.

I heard what sounded like a stall horn and at one time the camera does allow a glimpse at the airspeed indicator (looked like stall speed to me).

I don't think those kids knew how close to peril they were. Flap settings aside.. stalling there woulda been the end !

And as far as flaps go ? I rarely use'em all.. especially with a long runway and NEVER with a stiff crosswind *sigh*..

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Reply #5 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 10:23pm

beaky Offline
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Quote:

Yeah; I checked the island out in FS9 - it's a lovely little spot though the sim definitely doesn't do it justice.

The approach looks pretty standard; it seems to me on right traffic one makes the turn for base right over that point visible in the video - good landmarks.

As for the last notch; I agree again about dropping it when one is comitted to the landing; I just don't like it. There's no reason a serviceable and properly loaded Cardinal should need full flaps on a runway like that; and in this case they looked to be a bad move. He wasn't anywhere close to trimmed for landing when he dropped 'em and chopped power; wasting energy until he left himself 'low, slow and nowhere to go'.

It was just a sloppy show of piloting, IMO.

Of course, a show of hands of who hasn't bollixed a landing at one point or another? LOL

True, true. The reason I never use more than 20 on base, besides that having been hammered into my skull during training, is because I rarely use more than that all the way to landing., although I've been encouraged to since I started at 47N, with its longer runway and clearer approaches (more than 20 was a definite no-no at 2N8).
I like to get on final and have a good look at runway length, obstacles, and of course see what the wind is up to- it's usually a different story below 500 AGL, requiring some re-assessment of what's going to be needed.

And regarding Brett's comment: I thought Iheard the horn, too, but wan't sure... definitely a tense moment there when he added more flaps; notice how they get all quiet and the cameraman in the back suddenly moves the camera forward... it's sort of funny and scary at the same time.
I wish some of my bad approaches had been videotaped... well, then again, maybe not... Grin

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Reply #6 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 10:43pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I just watched it again and got chilled..

On short final you can definately hear the stall horn and see the plane sink and that's when the camera pans to give a good view of the airspeed (looked to be at the bottom of the white).. just as he applies power.

The slightest wind shift toward a tailwind or gust even slightly lowering the airspeed and that plane was going down.

Boss.. you've felt a Cardinal at 70kias on final.. imagine 55-60... *double sigh*

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Reply #7 - Feb 15^th, 2006 at 11:28pm

beefhole Offline
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Quote:

I just watched it again and got chilled..

On short final you can definately hear the stall horn and see the plane sink and that's when the camera pans to give a good view of the airspeed (looked to be at the bottom of the white).. just as he applies power.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who picked that up. That plane was dropping for a solid four or five seconds before he really added enough power, long, long after he had descended far below the glideslope. And there was a PAPI there.

I mean, hell, you should NEVER, EVER hear the stall warning on final, wind or no wind!

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Reply #8 - Feb 16^th, 2006 at 11:16am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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And... the tricky thing about Cardinals is.. they sink ANYWAY when you get below 70kias.. flirting with a stall horn in a Cardinal is a.. umm ...errr (can't resist) a Cardinal sin..

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Reply #9 - Feb 16^th, 2006 at 10:56pm

Boss_BlueAngels Offline
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Cardinal sin... I'd give you ten bucks for that one if I could...

The day is always better when you're flying upside down.&&&&www.fight2flyphoto.com&&&&Canon RebelXT&&Canon 18-55mm&&Sigma 10-20mm F/4-6.3&&Sigma 100-300mm F/4-6.3&&Sigma 50-500mm F/4-6.3

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