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Fuel in da planes (Read 647 times)
Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:55pm

Falcon500   Offline
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It seems that all of the stock aircraft have the wrong "mileage" when flown, at least in comparison with the "Pilot Manual" that came with the game.

the closest one i found  was the corsair, at a grand 87% of what is posted in the manual! the worst of the stock aircraft, (the ones i tested in total F4U,F4F,F6F,A6M2,P38,TBF,NIK2) was the P-38 at a lonesome 31% of 1750 miles.

I believe most of the accuracies are wrong because the cruise altitudes are set low (between 7 and 12 thousand feet) as per to gain the accuracy of a short wide theatre, unlike the ETO which was narrow and tall.

I have a few addon aircraft that are within a few miles, the worst addon aircraft was a B-29with a written range of over 4000 miles but a simulator range of around 600. Shocked

Just posting info that may help mission builders.  Grin

Corsair       1362
Wildcat        513
Hellcat         788
A6m2           751
George        757
TBF-1          466
Lightning    544

mind you all but the TBF had drop tanks and all did have to take off from a ground base.
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 9:35pm

AvHistory   Offline
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How did you do the test?
 
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Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 1:15am

H   Offline
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If not editing files, pull back your throttle (during flight or before warping (X) to the next waypoint).
 
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Reply #3 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 6:21am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
How did you do the test?

Exactly. You might be interested in this. http://www.475thfghf.org/Lindbergh.htm

Quote:
With additional fuel cells in the J model P-38, Satan's Angels had been making six and one-half and seven-hour flights.  On I July Lindbergh flew a third mission with the group, an armed reconnaissance to enemy strips at Nabire, Sagan One and Two, Otawiri, and Ransiki, all on the western shore of Geelvink Bay. Already Lindbergh's technical eye noticed something.  After six and one-half hours flying time, he landed with 210 gallons of fuel remaining in his Lightning's tanks.

Two missions later, on 3 July, the group covered sixteen heavies on a strike against Jefman Island.  Lindbergh led Hades Squadron's White Flight as they wove back and forth above the lumbering B-25s.  After the attack the Lightning's went barge hunting.

First one, then two pilots reported dwindling fuel and broke off for home.  MacDonald ordered the squadron back but because Lindbergh had nursed his fuel, he asked for and received permission to continue the hunt with his wingman.  After a few more strafing runs, Lindbergh noticed the other Lightning circling overhead.  Nervously the pilot told Lindbergh that he had only 175 gallons of fuel left.  The civilian told him to reduce engine R.P.M.'s, lean out his fuel mixture, and throttle back.  When they landed, the 431st driver had seventy gallons left, Lindbergh had 260.  They had started the mission with equal amounts of gas.

Lindbergh talked with MacDonald.  The colonel then asked the group's pilots to assemble at the recreation hall that evening.  The hall was that in name only, packed dirt floors staring up at a palm thatched roof, one ping pong table and some decks of cards completing the decor.  Under the glare of unshaded bulbs, MacDonald got down to business.  "Mr. Lindbergh" wanted to explain how to gain more range from the P-38s.  In a pleasant manner Lindbergh explained cruise control techniques he had worked out for the Lightning's: reduce the standard 2,200 rpm to 1,600, set fuel mixtures to "auto-lean," and slightly increase manifold pressures.  This, Lindbergh predicted, would stretch the Lightning's radius by 400 hundred miles, a nine-hour flight.  When he concluded his talk half an hour later, the room was silent.

Quote:
The group’s chief concern surfaced quickly, that such procedures would foul sparkplugs and scorch cylinders.  Lindbergh methodically gave the answer.  The Lightning's technical manual provided all the figures necessary to prove his point; they had been there all along.  Nonetheless the 475th remained skeptical.


The next day, the Fourth of July, Lindbergh accompanied the 433rd on a six-hour, forty-minute flight led by Captain "Parky" Parkansky.  Upon landing, the lowest fuel level recorded was 160 gallons.  In his journal entry Lindbergh felt ". . . that the talk last night was worthwhile.  " The 475th had lengthened its stride.
 

...

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Reply #4 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 8:38am

Falcon500   Offline
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Well I un-knowingly made a mission that started at Mindanao Airbase to Hollandia which the game says is 1350+ miles, I took off (as well as i could, bombers really dont like to leave the ground) and raised the flaps and gear, centered the ailerons, rudder, and elevator. Then let the computer's warp "engine" take over and when it gave me the "Fuel low, Engine sputtering" message I wrote down the amount of mileage remaining.

As variables i changed the temp. and re-tested the corsair and variance were only a few tenths of a mile (which may be accounted for on take off.)

I had the Take off waypoint, then another waypoint at 25,000 ft and 270 knots, that was 1350 miles away and all aircraft were at different highths and different speeds when they recieved the fuel low message. I checked the A6M2 and the cruise altitude in the .dp is what sets the cruise altitude (oddly enough Roll Eyes) and the cruise speed and all other speeds in the .dp are measure in kilometers per hour.

I should change one and see what happens, like change the P-38 to a higher altitude and lower speed and see what happens.

Grin
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #5 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:48am

AvHistory   Offline
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You need to "fly" the plane to get max range.  The game switches to full rich if you let it fly.

Prop pitch & mixture need to be optimized by hand.
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 11:30pm

H   Offline
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I haven't had the issue of spark plug foul-up in the sim Wink. I've made a few missions where, in the mission briefing, the warning: "Watch your fuel. If you run full throttle, you may not even get there, let alone return."
Reality:
During the Battle of Midway, the IJN was too far away for a round-trip attack (running the planes on full throttle). Although the concensus was that it was a hazzard to the engines, necessity dictated the need to conserve fuel, thus the throttles were eased back to an effective cruise speed.
Whether aircraft, automotive or hobbycraft, the principles are basic. For quick effect, more fuel consumption is needed; to cruise along, cut back. A 4-barrel carberator has two big venturies for full power but, for cruise speeds, it operates on two much smaller ones. On a long trip, I got much better milage with the 4-barrel than with a 2-barrel with the same type engine. This, of course, means not consistantly flooring it to pass everything else on road (or in the air). 8)
 
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Reply #7 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 10:24am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
A 4-barrel carberator has two big venturies for full power but, for cruise speeds, it operates on two much smaller ones.


Unless its a Holly Double Pumper or Carter AFB Wink
« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2006 at 1:04pm by AvHistory »  
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Reply #8 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 10:41pm

H   Offline
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Quote:
H: A 4-barrel carberator has two big venturies for full power but, for cruise speeds, it operates on two much smaller ones.
Quote:
Unless its a Holly Double Pumper or Carter AFB Wink
But they still get better gas milage (somewhat) when you don't shove it to the floor. Wink 8)
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2006 at 2:31am by H »  
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Reply #9 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 11:21pm

Falcon500   Offline
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??? holly double pumper ???  How bout a P&W R-2800-59  Wink

I understand now.... but there is no way im testing the zero's almost two thousand mile range  Wink
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #10 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 2:33am

H   Offline
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Quote:
I understand now.... but there is no way im testing the zero's almost two thousand mile range  Wink
Why not? I'll simulate a hand wave as you fly over. 8)
 
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Reply #11 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 10:32am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
??? holly double pumper ???  How bout a P&W R-2800-59  Wink

I understand now.... but there is no way im testing the zero's almost two thousand mile range  Wink


Get the plane up to cruise, set the engine/prop controls,

A6M2-21 Reisen (ZEKE)
Throttle                  -15.2 cmHg
Prop set to            1,560 rpm

trim it out & check on it every hour or so. After an hour or so you can extrapolate the planes range if you don't want to have it fly the whole way.

That being said if you are not interested in flying the plane, it really doesn't matter much as its very hard to get anywhere near max range out of the warp command.
 
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Reply #12 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 11:59pm

H   Offline
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I've cut throttle for a warp in CFS2 but haven't really compared consumption effects in it. In CFS1, it depends upon where I place my throttle control (in my case, keyboard commands have been aliased elsewhere). By cutting it completely off, I still have a full tank at the destination waypoint; partial cut provides the relative consumption reduction. I have little doubt that the subsequent format (CFS2) is any different (I haven't specifically mentioned it but, of course, relavent mixture and prop settings are also applicable - see AvHistory's info above). Wink 8)
 
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Reply #13 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 9:43pm

Falcon500   Offline
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true i could just start off with 20% percent fuel and see how far i go Grin

As for throttle... it seems CFS type engines (not fs98) are not affected by the difference in throttle position before warp. i have noticed this with certain aircraft with fs98 engines. I have also noticed that with stock cfs2 aircraft you can turn the fuel off and be warped with full tanks Grin
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #14 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 10:52pm

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
I have also noticed that with stock cfs2 aircraft you can turn the fuel off and be warped with full tanks Grin



Which makes the range question irrelevant to anyone who does not want to actually fly the mission.

With warp a P-51 can escort a B-29 from Wichita to Tokyo & back Shocked

 
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Reply #15 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 11:05pm

H   Offline
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Quote:
As for throttle... it seems CFS type engines (not fs98) are not affected by the difference in throttle position before warp. i have noticed this with certain aircraft with fs98 engines. I have also noticed that with stock cfs2 aircraft you can turn the fuel off and be warped with full tanks Grin
As I stated previously, CFS1 is definitely affected by the throttle position when warping -- at least on my computers. If the position is moved immediately after the "x" is keyed, it may still affect it (depends upon where the computations are at in the process as to the effect). To be effective, I normally make the necessary settings just prior to warp but there's been the time I forgot and quickly pulled the throttle back just after hittng the "x" key -- it was soon enough to be effective. Certainly beat coming out of warp and having to glide in for a landing (I like to do the landings -- never got to when taking lessons for real) only to "exit flight."
P.S. Please note that, although each is very similiar to their respective releases, the CFS programs were produced seperately from FS programs so some features weren't incorporated in both.
 
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Reply #16 - Jan 21st, 2006 at 12:58am

Falcon500   Offline
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yes, yes, the flight sims are different i know, i do all sorts of things with all sort of aircraft from just about every MS-FS Roll Eyes, i remembered a mission someone made and unless you throttled back you wouldnt make it there and back, but that was with a FS98 model, so when i was testing i tried it with the corsair with no affects.

I guess i could be called a heavy mod-er but i dont make bad planes, i just tinker with ones i have, lol i have  6 "Flight Dynamic Work Books" going, which includes a B-29, PBY-5A, P-47D-23, P-39D, and a Beaufighter. Grin Not including the other ones i tinker with bit by bit, Like my Hurricane Mk.II B, which is collapsing CFS2 when i enter MP.
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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