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The Army's Apache attack-helicopter had a bad war. (Read 889 times)

Reply #15 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:10pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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The Apache isn't a very reliable helo to begin with. Then when you take an AK to it, the problems worsen.

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Reply #16 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:16pm

Ivan Offline
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Wasn't there some guy telling that you didn't even had to shoot at the AH-64 to get it to the ground, as the continuous computer problems made off-airbase landings something like regular routine.

And the one that was 'downed' in iraq... don't believe that story, it landed because of the software mess onboard.

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Reply #17 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:20pm

Craig. Offline
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I have to go with Ivan here. Soviet designs would have come in more practical in the second Gulf War

No they wouldn't have. The Apache and Hind for instance are two totally differant aircraft. The Apache is an Attack helicopter the Hind is designated a Battlefield utility helicopter. The US BUH is the Blackhawk, It wouldn't have made a differance the type used as a well placed RPG or series of bullets to the tail rotor or far end of the tail boom to the rotor will cripple any helo which requires a tail rotor for stabilisation. As mentioned its the weakest part of a chopper. The MOD recently had to do a study to determine a suitable BLUH and SCMR, the MI24 all versions were considered in detail and it didn't come close to being a modern viable option.

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Reply #18 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:26pm

C Offline
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The MOD recently had to do a study to determine a suitable BLUH and SCMR, the MI24 all versions were considered in detail and it didn't come close to being a modern viable option.

...and further to that, that was with BAE Systems being closely involved...

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Reply #19 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:32pm

Craig. Offline
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...and further to that, that was with BAE Systems being closely involved...

God only knows whats going on with it now. I suppose the future Lynx is still on the cards but nothings been said about it.

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Reply #20 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:37pm

Ivan Offline
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Why not go for the Kamov Alligator...

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Reply #21 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:40pm

Craig. Offline
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Because the new one needs to be able to seat 8 passengers minimum. The SCMR varient needs to also fit on the Royal navy frigates, I believe.

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Reply #22 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 1:41pm

Hagar Offline
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Why not go for the Kamov Alligator...

Better still, replace all those attack helicopters with a couple of squadrons of A-10s. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Reply #23 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 3:37pm

Ivan Offline
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Because the new one needs to be able to seat 8 passengers minimum. The SCMR varient needs to also fit on the Royal navy frigates, I believe.

OK so they basically want to re-invent the hind... after deciding it was rubbish in the first place

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Reply #24 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 3:42pm

beefhole Offline
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Better still, replace all those attack helicopters with a couple of squadrons of A-10s. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Dunno if the US would be willing to sell them Doug-I've never heard of any nations being interested or attempting to buy, so I'm not sure if we'd sell.

And a couple of well placed shots can take down ANYTHING-it''s a rather ambiguous statement.

Ivan, it's slightly proposterous to assert they ditched due to software problems. Last time I checked, you fly a chopper with the cyclic and collective. Maybe you could elaborate.

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Reply #25 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 3:46pm

C Offline
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OK so they basically want to re-invent the hind... after deciding it was rubbish in the first place

Or even re-invent the Lynx, which is one of the best whirly-copter type things to be developed in the last 30 years. Very versatile piece of kit...

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Reply #26 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 3:52pm

Craig. Offline
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Or even re-invent the Lynx, which is one of the best whirly-copter type things to be developed in the last 30 years. Very versatile piece of kit...

bingo, thus why its the future lynx, glass cockpit, lighter more reliable higher weapons payload and faster is the perfect platform for it. The Hind is just too big.

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Reply #27 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 4:31pm

Hagar Offline
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Dunno if the US would be willing to sell them Doug-I've never heard of any nations being interested or attempting to buy, so I'm not sure if we'd sell.

That's a good point but I have to wonder if the MoD even considered it. Its combat record speaks for itself. "The planes proved their mettle in the Persian Gulf War in 1991, destroying more than 1,000 tanks, 2,000 military vehicles and 1,200 artillery pieces. Five A-10s were shot down during the war (a number of those by ZSU-23-4 Shilka), far fewer than military planners expected."

Quote:

And a couple of well placed shots can take down ANYTHING-it''s a rather ambiguous statement.

That's true but I'm sure you'll agree this makes a very tempting target.

This is the Kamov Alligator. No tail rotor but even more vulnerable wouldn't you say?

Helicopters can be very useful but I've never thought they're suitable for this sort of work.

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Reply #28 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 5:01pm

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Or even re-invent the Lynx, which is one of the best whirly-copter type things to be developed in the last 30 years. Very versatile piece of kit...

Not to mention the worlds fastest commercial Chopper.

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Reply #29 - Jan 10^th, 2006 at 5:14pm

C Offline
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That's a good point but I have to wonder if the MoD even considered it. Its combat record speaks for itself. "The planes proved their mettle in the Persian Gulf War in 1991, destroying more than 1,000 tanks, 2,000 military vehicles and 1,200 artillery pieces. Five A-10s were shot down during the war (a number of those by ZSU-23-4 Shilka), far fewer than military planners expected."

I doubt we would have done. We've had the Harriers for 35 years in various forms, and to be fair, in a European conflict the A-10s were already operating in Germany and at RAF Bentwaters in the UK...

« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2006 at 5:02am by C »

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