Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Non MS Flight Sims: Falcon 4.0 vs LOMAC (Read 450 times)
Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:32am

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
I'm going to buy a modern air combat flight sim.  I know the expertise in this forum is heavily MS related, but can anyone here offer experiences with these two?  Right now I'm leaning heavily towards the updated Falcon 4.0 Alied Force.

I'm looking for something with extremely deep complexity and a steep learning curve.  Basically I like learning about systems and how to operate them.  For this I've heard Falcon is the best (plus I'm concerned about being able to run LOMAC on my 2.4 GHz 128M video RAM machine).

Anyone have a compelling reason to stay away from Falcon 4.0 AF?

Another plus: I can get a copy for only $20.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:57am

BFMF   Offline
Colonel
Pacific Northwest

Gender: male
Posts: 19820
*****
 
Never played either, but get the cheapest that will run the best on your system
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 6:46pm

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
You pretty much just described the aspects of F4:AF that are better than LOMAC.  The only bad things I have heard about Falcon are the AI isn't too great, and the graphics don't look the best.  In your situation, I would say you should get Falcon, but LOMAC does have pretty complex systems if you actually want to dive in, and there are 7 different aircraft, with 7 different systems to learn.  So I would recommend getting LOMAC once you master Falcon, and by then you would probably have a computer to run LOMAC at full settings. Wink Smiley
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:47am

Sasquatch   Offline
2nd Lieutenant

Posts: 1
**
 
I have played LOMAC since it first appeared on shelves several years ago.  I am an enthusiastic fan of the game.  Below I will explain why I enjoy the game so much and why I believe you should purchase the game as well.

The graphics in LOMAC are incredible, even at low settings.  Until very recently, my computer consisted of a 2.0GHz CPU, 768MB of RAM, and the All-In-Wonder Radeon 9600: Pro 128MB graphics card.  At low settings LOMAC averaged about 20fps in a typical battle environment. The only scenarios the machine could not handle were those included heavy clouds, heavy rain, and lightning.  Everything looked great.  There is no need to run LOMAC with display settings at their maximum, it looks fine as it is.

The systems in LOMAC are very advanced, considering that multiple aircraft are included.  The radars are somewhat simplified, but this does little to detract from the game.  They still take a long time to learn.  Lock On’s A.I. is extremely advanced.  For comparisons with F4, check out the many “Lock On vs. F4” threads on LockOn.ru for more information.

Another thing I love about LOMAC is the mission editor.  It is extremely powerful, easy to use, and a lot of fun.  The only thing missing is dynamic events like those in CFS2 missions.

My only complaints with LOMAC are the occasional bugs and the lack of a dynamic campaign.  The theatre in which the simulator is situated is also small, but this a minor inconvenience.

If you decide to buy LOMAC, I also suggest you purchase Lock On 1.1: Flaming Cliffs.  For only $15 it adds a lot to the game, including a new aircraft (Su-25T), terrain textures for all four seasons and many avionics updates, particularly for the Su-27/33 and F-15C. Many bugs are also corrected.  Lock On 1.2: Black Shark is due in March 2006.  It will include the Ka-50 attack helicopter.

I have never played F4, but I am considering purchasing it.  It sounds like a good game as well.  I hope my advice will prove useful.



Sasquatch

P.S.  I wrote the above response quickly and don't have time to proof read, so excuse any spelling and grammer errors I may have made.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:59am

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
/\ I agree, I haven't played Falcon in quite a while, and I really love LOMAC and its systems are complex enough for me, but they are not really modern systems, more mid-80's systems, so they aren't exactly like the systems used today, but I would assume they are very close.  The systems in Falcon are extremely detailed in functionality, down to using the mouse to push buttons and flip switches in the cockpit instead of just using the keyboard.  I've even heard people say you could probably train F-16 pilots on it, but if you are just looking for a modern combat sim, go with LOMAC. Wink Smiley

But again, the way you described the learning curve, and complexity, and as long as you don't care about graphics, I would still have to recomend Falcon, or if you want, get both, then you can have the best of both worlds. Grin Wink
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:45pm

2992   Offline
Colonel

Gender: male
Posts: 515
*****
 
LOMAC, without question
 

...&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:19am

Mobayrasta1   Offline
Colonel
Nothing better than low
and slow!
NAS PATUXENT RIVER

Gender: male
Posts: 392
*****
 
I have been playing both for a long time. I like LOMAC the best. BUT THEY BOTH KICK ASS!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 8:52am

Gary R.   Offline
Colonel
If God is you're co-pilot,
switch seats.
PA, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 811
*****
 
I also am interested in a modern jet sim.  I have the old Falcon-4 and I liked it except that I can't use it with my Thrustmaster Afterburner stick and throttle AND my CH-pedals.  The sim knows the CH-pedals are there but it can't process their axis channel because the Afterburner has the twist stick and a rocker axis on the throttle grip for rudder control.  I have never found in fact a jet sim that can process more than 4 axis in-puts.  Why can't those publishers do like MS and plan that the end user might have upteen gillion controllers to use??   If anyone can tell me whether either sim can support and process up to 6 axis in-puts that would help me make my purchase descision.  Also, why can't the LOMAC people do like the IL2 people did with Pacific Fighters and develope a naval variation of LOMAC to include carriers, tomcats, and hornets.  Now, THAT would be cool.  Anyone can fly from a runway, it takes a real pilot to do it from a pitching deck.
 

AMD 2800xp on gigabyte vt600l k7 triton overclocked @ 2.3 ghz, 768 PC 3200, 128 DDR 6600GT AGP, 60 gig,5200 rpm maxtor, 160gig 7200rpm WD, Sony FD Trinitron 19
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 10:22am

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
You can fly from a carrier in LOMAC.  You can fly the Su-33 of the carrier, and if you do a little tweaking, I believe you can fly F-18s and F-14s off carriers also.  But you can't make new aircraft or anything like that for LOMAC, because they haven't released the code, or something like that, I'm not a programmer, I don't know.  But they are coming out with another add-on where you can fly the Ka-50, if you like that. Grin

Also, does your controller come with some sort of programming software, if so you can program an axis to be some button, instead of an axis.  I can use my Cougar and my rudder pedals both in LOMAC without a problem and the Cougar has 6 axes and the pedals have 3 (with toe brakes, but LOMAC doesn't have a toe brake axes), and I have downloaded a profile that allows me to use all the axes I can. Wink Smiley
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 11:32am

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
Well, I was all set to buy Falcon but found a used copy of LOMAC at my local game store.  I got it working nicely, tweaked the settings so things run smooth enough on my PC, and I'm up and flying. 

Took but a minute or two to learn to fly the planes.  Unfortunately my joystick isn't co-operating too well: it's kinda noisy and injects random stick movements every now and then.  It's not too bad with enough dead zone but it's annoying.  I'll have to see if there are driver updates.

So far I've learned to fly all the aircraft and I'm learning to fight the A10.  I love ground attack.

I grew up on Falcon 3.0 and I'd say that the system complexity is about what it was in that old game.  Enough to be intersting but it doesn't break new ground for me.  The good news is that the learning curve should be pretty shallow for long time flight sim junkies.  You just have to learn the keystrokes.

I do have to re-map everything since the controls are not well laid out as default.

Graphics are just fine, the theater they chose is exellent: great terrain variety.  The playable aircraft are interesting, definately biased towards the old Soviet-bloc.  I've always flown NATO aircraft in sims so learning about the Iron Curtain hardware has been interesting.  They're crude, effective, beefy, and masculine compared to the high tech NATO planes.  If the planes were people the Soviets would be boxers and the NATOs would be accountants.

Still learning weapons deployment, then I'll venture in to some real missions and see what the game is made of!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 4:03pm

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
Great Choice and good luck getting everything sorted out.  I have to highly recommend getting Flaming Cliffs, here http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-LockOn11.html, it fixes alot of bugs and it adds the Su-25T which has an AFM and lots of new systems.  It also adds quite a few new campaigns and mission creation options, and new ground textures for all four seasons.  Good luck with that, and pick up Flaming Cliffs, it's a steal at $14.95. Wink Smiley

P.S. LOMAC has alot of Russian aircraft, because it was developed by Eagle Dynamics, which is based in Russia. Wink
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 12:06am

Gary R.   Offline
Colonel
If God is you're co-pilot,
switch seats.
PA, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 811
*****
 
I'm suprised Uncle Bill never fully entered the Jet Age yet.  I would like to see the next CFS edition support ALL air combat with theaters and missions covering WW-2 to Iraqi freedom and weapons covering guns all the way to amrams and aircraft covering wildcats to F-22's.  That would be way cool. and the huge hard drives and latest generation vid cards and 64 bit dual core processors could support that sort of sim to.  If it were produced in a multi disk set a person could install whatever parts he wanted.  A base install which would give you the world and the essential DLL's and and an era package from which you could select the planes and missions/campaignes.
 

AMD 2800xp on gigabyte vt600l k7 triton overclocked @ 2.3 ghz, 768 PC 3200, 128 DDR 6600GT AGP, 60 gig,5200 rpm maxtor, 160gig 7200rpm WD, Sony FD Trinitron 19
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 12:55am

Katahu   Offline
Colonel

Gender: male
Posts: 6920
*****
 
The multi-cd idea is pretty clever. If you look at X-Plane v8.21, it comes with a DVD set. Each DVD represents a certain continent of the globe. You can install either parts of the world to save up space or, if you have enough room, install the whole world.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:26am

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
Quote:
I'm suprised Uncle Bill never fully entered the Jet Age yet.  I would like to see the next CFS edition support ALL air combat with theaters and missions covering WW-2 to Iraqi freedom and weapons covering guns all the way to amrams and aircraft covering wildcats to F-22's.  That would be way cool.   


Unfortunately with the current MSFS/MSCFS flight model I don't think this would be a compelling game.  Update the flight model and it would be awsome!  MSFS graphics engine and real world environment (VORs, ATC, etc, etc) along with realistic battlefields?!?! Sign me up!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 6:10pm

Gary R.   Offline
Colonel
If God is you're co-pilot,
switch seats.
PA, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 811
*****
 
Well, Austin Meyer has had the secret for realistic flight modeling for years now.  "Blade Element".  I find it hard to believe with the money and resources available to Microsoft that they can't find one very talented software engineer with the same avaition background that Austin Meyer has who could design a very passable rip-off of X-plane's "Blade Element" dynamics.  Not many people know this but Austin Meyer was involved in the very genisis of MSFS back in the wireframe days.  He had a parting of ways with Uncle Bill and took his ideas and technology with him and the existing result is now X-plane version 8xxx.  He also does all of X-plane design and coding on MAC's.  X-plane is one of the few softwares where the same disks work in both IBM and MAC platforms.
 

AMD 2800xp on gigabyte vt600l k7 triton overclocked @ 2.3 ghz, 768 PC 3200, 128 DDR 6600GT AGP, 60 gig,5200 rpm maxtor, 160gig 7200rpm WD, Sony FD Trinitron 19
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print