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AI A to A combat (Read 752 times)
Jan 1st, 2006 at 10:50pm

Falcon500   Offline
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I noticed today in quick mission that the AI wingmen are horrible in dog fighting, i had four "reds" and three "blues" (incuding myself Wink) and i shot down three of the reds before i got shot down and the other two blues were shot down as the game respawned, the last bandit was behind me by 800 yards and my wing men were in formation (about 200 yards behind me on either side) and when i gave the help me command, they both peeled over in a vertical loop and ended up some 1300 yards behind me. As this was happening the bandit put shells all over my wing and fuselage. Some how i got behind the bandit and shot him down too.

I was in a Stock corsair and had it set with 60% fuel.

We were fighting four KI-46's

Makes me mad Angry
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #1 - Jan 2nd, 2006 at 11:24am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Rookie AI are pretty bad but I noticed in the campaigns that if you keep them alive long enough then they actually become quite useful and even effective in some cases.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #2 - Jan 2nd, 2006 at 12:51pm

AvHistory   Offline
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Try "TAB" then 'attack my target' on each bandit one after another. AI should be set at highest skill level.
 
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Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:42am

james007   Offline
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Falcon 500 I notice through observation in flying in  quick missions is that the AI is not as bad as initialy depicted.

The problem is that we expect them to response in a certain way and when it does not we think right away they are not reacting properly.

You have to preposition  them properly or in other words you have to give them proper orders for them to be in position to take advantage of your next command.
This takes lot of practice.

If you have order them to split five minutes before then you cannot expect them to respond to your new order quickly.

It takes time to react to your new orders. You have to remember that this planes where not Jets. This planes where prop and their speed was a bit slower. Another thing you have to consider is that it takes time for your wing man to assest the situation and react appropiately.

Another thing to remember is that Quick mission was setup to increase you combat skill and not to improve your mission handeling ability.

Remember that you can pick the skill of your opponents but not of your squadron members.

There are nine levels available in CFS2 of different flying skills for the AI.

When you pick a level like rookie the program picks the next level either as non-aggressive or avearage or aggressive.

I suspect your wingman are always rookies but there skill level of agrression is determine by the program.

Thats the reason the Ai sometimes does not response properly as you would like them to do.

You have to remember they may bahave different when you create a mission.

No the Ai is far from perfect but it is better than we realize.


James007
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:03pm by james007 »  
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Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 4:20pm

Falcon500   Offline
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Dont get me wrong, the AI is beautiful, before i started playing Fighter Anthology, the AI was determined by three of four factors, (Fighter , Bomber , AC-130 , F-117)
The air to air (brains) were okay but the ground attack stunk, A-10's couldnt hit anything smaller than a single story house F-105's were prone to strafing and were horrible at it.

But CFS2 the air to ground is beautiful, the aircaft can hit anything and the bombs and torpedoes are accurate. But many a time I will make a mission with Corsair's providing air cover and me attacking ground targets but many times I need to set up long loiter times or multiple waypoints so the enemy can get closer and the Corsair's can find them.

I also wonder what is the real differance with the (airframe) settings in the .air files.
I understand that if you change the stock B-25's setting to a B-24's the flight of B-25's stays in level flight and fires their guns like madmen defending themselves. (more realistic). Rather than acting like fat fighters and rolling and looping through the sky. But what is the differance between the F4F and F6F? ???
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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Reply #5 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 2:40am

H   Offline
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Quote:
But what is the difference between the F4F and F6F? ???
Aside from a lot more power in a larger frame and still managing some maneuverability (F6F)? Actually, I've only occasioned CFS2 so I can't properly ascertain their comparable AI charcteristics but, as player flyable, they perform differently (to the Hellcat's favor -- but the F4F isn't really that wild). 8)
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 7:28pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Dont get me wrong, the AI is beautiful, before i started playing Fighter Anthology, the AI was determined by three of four factors, (Fighter , Bomber , AC-130 , F-117)
The air to air (brains) were okay but the ground attack stunk, A-10's couldnt hit anything smaller than a single story house F-105's were prone to strafing and were horrible at it.

But CFS2 the air to ground is beautiful, the aircaft can hit anything and the bombs and torpedoes are accurate. But many a time I will make a mission with Corsair's providing air cover and me attacking ground targets but many times I need to set up long loiter times or multiple waypoints so the enemy can get closer and the Corsair's can find them.

I also wonder what is the real differance with the (airframe) settings in the .air files.
I understand that if you change the stock B-25's setting to a B-24's the flight of B-25's stays in level flight and fires their guns like madmen defending themselves. (more realistic). Rather than acting like fat fighters and rolling and looping through the sky. But what is the differance between the F4F and F6F? ???

I should imagine that there are two AI modes. Bomber and fighter. The bombers will fly straight and level and shoot you with their guns, the fighters will twist and turn and try and dogfight. This would be the main factor in how an enemy aircraft fights. As for differences between single aircraft it sould be as with the player flyable aeroplanes minus fuel and ammo weight.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #7 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:10pm

james007   Offline
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I have a question? Would not this difference of wieght and ammo give the Ai a tremedous advantage over the player.


James007
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:55pm

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
I have a question? Would not this difference of wieght and ammo give the Ai a tremedous advantage over the player.
James007


Not enough to overcome its predictability.  Beside you can always fly with a light fuel load if you wish.  

Ammo weight is more of a big deal cause you generally need it all.  A P-47 carries a little over 1/2 ton of .50 or about twice as much as a P-51.

A quick look at some German fighters suggests they generally carried less then a 1/4 ton of ammo & the Japanese fighters even less.

We experimented with padding the weight of AI only versions up to 50% fuel/100% ammo & they still were not that hard to kill.  We have not yet finilized if we are going to create & pad AI for MAW.
 
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Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 9:09am

james007   Offline
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I believe in CFS2 the Ai does take into account the wieght of the fuel and Ammo weight. Thats the reason sometimes the Ai some find it hard to land on a Airbase.

As for the diference between the Hellcat and the Wildcat. You can find them here: http://www.acepilots.com/planes/main.html


James007
 
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Reply #10 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 10:41am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
I believe in CFS2 the Ai does take into account the wieght of the fuel and Ammo weight. Thats the reason sometimes the Ai some find it hard to land on a Airbase.
James007


The CFS2 AI does not account for fuel or ammo weight.  The AI landing problem has to do with a fixed glide slope issue in the landing routines software.

...

BTW: I don't expect AI to have a landing problem is MAW Grin  Some screens of large groups landing have been posted at sim outhouse a while back.


 
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Reply #11 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 1:57pm

james007   Offline
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That sounds nice and dandy. Even with CFS2 and CFS3 Ai short commings. Once you get to understand them you start to realize they are not that bad.

Now with all the upgrade done to CFS2 World map and all the airbases created by the community. I can not only fly in the Philipines Sea and South China but also over the Eastern Front and Burma.

MAW will bee a nice addition to the Hooby.

Now lets go and shoot down those AI before they get us first.  Oh , Oh, I see a Ki84 Frank on your six Bear. !Dive, Dive! LoL


James007

 
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Reply #12 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 2:06pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Once you understand the CFS ai you realise how bad they are. Even in Ace mode it's easy to predict exactly what they're going to do. Turn in circles in CFS2 and dive and climb in CFS3.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #13 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 2:42pm

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
 Oh , Oh, I see a Ki84 Frank on your six Bear. !Dive, Dive! LoL
James007


...

One of ours no doubt.  Wink  And since I know what the AI is going to do I shall kill him in short order.  Shocked

...
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2006 at 7:03pm by AvHistory »  
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Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 11:37pm

Falcon500   Offline
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the badger!
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I understand that bombers and fighters fly different Roll Eyes but all 70 some fighters from A-1's to YAK-141's shared the same fighter (brains)....

the only thing i can think of is that when F6F (brains) work to the advantage of F6F's where SBD (brains) use SBD advantages
 

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&&                        The GMax effect... The GMax effect
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