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El-al installs flares!!! (Read 645 times)
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 10:02am
Omag 2.0
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Just heard this on the radio... El al is going to equip several of its passengerplanes with a missile detection-system + countermessures to distract the incomming missile. Seems some time ago one of their planes was nearly missed by a rocket attack. When these planes are converted, they will be put into service on high-risk routes... Where is the world going to...
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Reply #1 -
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 10:19am
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
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Quote:
Just heard this on the radio... El al is going to equip several of its passengerplanes with a missile detection-system + countermessures to distract the incomming missile. Seems some time ago one of their planes was nearly missed by a rocket attack. When these planes are converted, they will be put into service on high-risk routes... Where is the world going to...
Unfortunately civil airliners have been shot down by missiles in the past & once this has been done the risk will always be there. I'm actually surprised that it's taken so long for an airline to introduce some sort of missile detection system on their aircraft.
Quote:
THE SHOOTING DOWN OF TWO AIR RHODESIA AIRCRAFT IN SEPTEMBER 1978 & FEBRUARY 1979
For many years the Viscounts had operated a service every day from Salisbury to Kariba to Wankie National Park to Victoria Falls and returning to Salisbury by the reverse route. It was on the last leg from Kariba to Salisbury on the 3rd of September 1978 that Air Rhodesia Flight RH825 radioed a Mayday call. The aircraft "The Hunyani" with fifty two passengers and four crew members on board was hit by a heat seeking Sam 7 missile. It had been fired by ZIPRA men ..... terrorists, guerrillas, combatants, comrades, cadres, freedom fighters, soldiers (depending on your viewpoint)
On the 12 Feb. 1979 another Viscount "The Umniati" Air Rhodesia Flight RH827 was shot down not far from the site of the first crash. This time all 59 on board where lost.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/rob_rickards/viscounts/disasters.htm
PS. This is a Sam 7 Strela-2 portable missile launcher. I'm told they're readily available to anyone that wants one with no questions asked.
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Reply #2 -
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 11:28am
killerbunny
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Belgium
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Another example of an airliner shot down :
On 3 July 1988, Iran Air Flight 655 was over the Persian Gulf on its way to the Dubai from Bandar Abbas. The plane flew near the ship USS Vincennes, a U.S. Navy cruiser equipped with the most sophisticated radar and electronic battle gear. They claimed that the ship mistook the airliner for an Iranian F-14 Tomcat. When the aircrew failed to respond to a message, the cruiser shot the airliner down with a missile. All 16 crew and 274 passengers were killed. The United States called the incident a tragic mistake
More info here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Reading this, its easy to understand why they want to equip their airliners with such systems
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Reply #3 -
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 12:18pm
SilverFox441
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The Iran Air flight destroyed by the Vincennes wouldn't have been helped by a missile distraction system. The system is effective against IR homing missiles only, the SM-2 missile which engaged Iran Air was of the Semi-Active Radar Homing variety.
I am surprised that they are going to use flares rather than a IR dazzler head or heads. Flares are somewhat more effective, but carry with them risks that don't occur with dazzler heads.
Steve
(Silver Fox)
Daly
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Reply #4 -
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 3:33pm
myshelf
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$2000 a piece? i'd like to get my hand on one just to take the controller and sensors apart
come to think of it, are they working agaisnt cars?
the reasonable man adjusts to his souroundings, while the unreasonable man insists on adjusting his souroundings to him.&&&&therefore all progress is due to the unreasonable man.
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Reply #5 -
Dec 30
th
, 2005 at 4:46pm
Ivan
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The Arkia plane that was attacked in Africa had the system installed already, as it is used by the government. That one used milspec flares instead of th pure infrared ones that they are planning here.
Anyway, there will be some T that will give up his life (as in developing brain cancer) to get around this anyway. Furthermore, a SA-13 isn't fooled by flares anyway and easyly available (these were used against US helicopters in iraq)
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
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Reply #6 -
Dec 31
st
, 2005 at 12:34pm
beefhole
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Quote:
TAnyway, there will be some T that will give up his life (as in developing brain cancer) to get around this anyway.
If by T you mean terrorist, they don't do it because they have developing brain cancer-the vast majority of suicide bombers are perfectly healthy, young men
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Reply #7 -
Dec 31
st
, 2005 at 12:40pm
Woodlouse2002
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If by T you mean terrorist, they don't do it because they have developing brain cancer-the vast majority of suicide bombers are perfectly healthy, young men
I'm guessing he means working with radioactive materials.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #8 -
Jan 1
st
, 2006 at 4:14am
Ivan
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No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
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Quote:
I'm guessing he means working with radioactive materials.
High-power radar sets. For example HAWK system has a certain notority for shortening the life of the operator
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #9 -
Jan 1
st
, 2006 at 7:40pm
Chris_F
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Quote:
I am surprised that they are going to use flares rather than a IR dazzler head or heads. Flares are somewhat more effective, but carry with them risks that don't occur with dazzler heads.
The simple pulsed IR type dazzler heads (like the ALQ144) don't have enough power to distract an IR missle from the giant IR signature of something the size of an airliner. These systems are very effective on smaller IR signature craft like rotorcraft and the like.
IR Laser based systems which could be effective on an airliner are under development but aren't fielded yet.
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Reply #10 -
Jan 1
st
, 2006 at 7:43pm
Woodlouse2002
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I like jam.
Cornwall, England
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Posts: 12574
Quote:
High-power radar sets. For example HAWK system has a certain notority for shortening the life of the operator
Similar.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #11 -
Jan 2
nd
, 2006 at 12:17am
SilverFox441
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Now What?
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Chris_F, I was thinking more along the lines of this:
http://www.dsd.es.northropgrumman.com/commercial_aircraft/index.html
I'd rather fit this than the low power dazzlers fitted to tactical helos. Systems in the link above are much more effective at blinding the seeker head of an IR threat (even an SA-13).
No problems with expendable stores either.
Steve
(Silver Fox)
Daly
&&
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Reply #12 -
Jan 2
nd
, 2006 at 5:37am
Ivan
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No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
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4X-BAW should have one, but i can't find it on photos...
Jordanian Royal A340 has one on the left side of the wingbox, i just don't get it why the thing is in front of the engines.
And the thing isn't as effective as the manufacturer claims anyway. Even with mixers on the exhaust and the anti-IR lantern on the back a Mi-24 is still vulnerable to Stinger missiles
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #13 -
Jan 2
nd
, 2006 at 11:16am
Chris_F
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Quote:
Chris_F, I was thinking more along the lines of this:
http://www.dsd.es.northropgrumman.com/commercial_aircraft/index.html
I'd rather fit this than the low power dazzlers fitted to tactical helos. Systems in the link above are much more effective at blinding the seeker head of an IR threat (even an SA-13).
No problems with expendable stores either.
That's the type of laser system I'm referring to. My company makes the competing system, which, in my biased oppinion, is further ahead in development than the Northrop Grumman system. Neither of them are ready for prime time yet though, and neither are deployed or operational. I give these things another three to five years before they are viable as a fixed wing IR counter measure.
http://www.eis.na.baesystems.com/news/05_press/041-2005.htm
There are high powered pulsed IR countermeasures which have been developed. My company fielded one (about the size of a trash can) that was (I believe)propane fired. The device was designed to protect a 747 carying the then-new space shuttle during its appearance at the Paris air show. The thing was huge, heavy, and created a lot of drag: not a viable alternative for an airline.
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Reply #14 -
Jan 2
nd
, 2006 at 4:28pm
C
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Earth
Posts: 13144
Seems a sensible move for an airline based in such a volatile region. Similar countermeasures have been fitted to large military aircraft (not that either of the articles was particularly forthcoming in detail) and are in daily use.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/948498/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/757150/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/642135/M/
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