Simviation Forum - Revisions on latest US Sectionals

Dec 18^th, 2005 at 1:27am

BFMF Offline
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I just bought a new US Sectional chart a couple days ago, and while planning my next solo cross country flight, I noticed that the AM radio stations are no longer on the charts. Why would the FAA remove a navigation tool from the charts?

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Reply #1 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 3:43am

Ivan Offline
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Reply #2 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 9:25pm

beaky Offline
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That stuff's being phased out, just like the old light beacons and smudge-pots... kinda sad. I hope there'll still be some VORs at least; I spent a lot of time learning to navigate with VORs and NDBs... Tongue

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Reply #3 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 9:32pm

Nexus Offline
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Oh, the VORs will be around for a loong time. They are still the backbone of the airway system, mind you. Many commercial flights still use VORs as primary navigation mean, NWA's DC9s comes to mind ???

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Reply #4 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 11:19pm

beaky Offline
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Oh, the VORs will be around for a loong time. They are still the backbone of the airway system, mind you. Many commercial flights still use VORs as primary navigation mean, NWA's DC9s comes to mind ???

Yeah, I know...but already GPS route and approaches are incorporating old VOR intersections (why maintain the stations when it can just be a point on a virtual map?), and a few operational DC9s, etc. without GPS won't stop the inexorable grindstone of progress. It'll take a while, but they'll go. Part of humanity's sudden need to bow before any device with a microchip and an LCD. , especially if it will relieve them of the awful burden of thinking. Roll Eyes

I'll miss the NDBs, too- very handy sometimes, and very simple to use. They're just about done for here in the US, although still widely used elsewhere.
But it's true; there are a few good years left... and you can still listen to the news or a ball game with the ADF! Grin

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Reply #5 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 11:53pm

TacitBlue Offline
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They had better not phase out the VORs any time soon. I want to learn to use those damn things. I understand how they work and everything, but (in the sim) I can never seem to use them. So now it's one of my personal aviation quests: to learn to use a VOR.

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Reply #6 - Dec 19^th, 2005 at 12:26am

BFMF Offline
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But it's true; there are a few good years left... and you can still listen to the news or a ball game with the ADF! Grin

True. There's nothing like listening to your local radio station while out practicing maneuvers Grin

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Reply #7 - Dec 19^th, 2005 at 7:00am

C Offline
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They had better not phase out the VORs any time soon. I want to learn to use those damn things. I understand how they work and everything, but (in the sim) I can never seem to use them. So now it's one of my personal aviation quests: to learn to use a VOR.

They're quite easy to use really. I could never quite get my haead round them when I was younger. Not that one has much choice in a non GPS aeroplane! Then again, we can use TACANs too. Much less hassle!

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Reply #8 - Dec 19^th, 2005 at 12:46pm

BFMF Offline
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I want to learn to use those damn things. I understand how they work and everything, but (in the sim) I can never seem to use them. So now it's one of my personal aviation quests: to learn to use a VOR.

I struggled with VORs untill someone showed me how they worked. Once you learn how, it's a very simple navigational aid to use.

In the FS9 Learning center, there's a section on navigation. Have you read the article on VORs?

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Reply #9 - Dec 20^th, 2005 at 7:59pm

TacitBlue Offline
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I've read everything I could find on VORs, and I know exactly how they are supposed to be used. It's just a matter of actually doing it. I think once I start working on that in with my instructor in a real airplane, it will come to me. That is a ways off at the moment as I'm just about to solo.
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Reply #10 - Dec 21^st, 2005 at 10:01am

BFMF Offline
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Fire up the flightsim and work on it Wink

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Reply #11 - Dec 21^st, 2005 at 1:39pm

beaky Offline
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Fire up the flightsim and work on it Wink

What stinks about VORs in FS9 is that there's not even a compass rose on the Map view, so it's very hard to do all you can do with the radials. Just flying to them is not much different than using an NDB... harder, actually. But the DME comes in handy...

Whenever possible I use RL charts to plan my FS flights.

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Reply #12 - Dec 21^st, 2005 at 1:58pm

BFMF Offline
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What stinks about VORs in FS9 is that there's not even a compass rose on the Map view, so it's very hard to do all you can do with the radials. Just flying to them is not much different than using an NDB... harder, actually. But the DME comes in handy...

Whenever possible I use RL charts to plan my FS flights.

VORs have longer range, and a lot of them have DME capabilities also. It's also a lot easier to track a specific radial with a VOR than it is with an NDB. You can do it, but it's not as easy.

If you fly with FS in the United States, you can download every sectional chart in the US in jpg format, which can be loaded into FS with the FS Browser module.

Here's some screenshots of how it works

Good old Fashioned Navigation

If you prefer real physical charts, I would suggest getting to know local pilots, and management at your local airport and ask them for old charts. I did, and I got sectionals, WAC, terminal, and charts for IFR flying for almost half of this side of the United states. They're several years old now, but are still good for the flight simulator Wink

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Reply #13 - Dec 21^st, 2005 at 3:09pm

beaky Offline
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VORs have longer range, and a lot of them have DME capabilities also. It's also a lot easier to track a specific radial with a VOR than it is with an NDB. You can do it, but it's not as easy.

Well, unless you know your bearing to the VOR, you have to twiddle the OBS until it shows you what radial you're on, then wait for a to/from indication, then try various headings until you're tracking the radial properly with whatever wind you're dealing with. With an NDB, once you're in range, keep the needle pointed straight up and you'll be headed for the station. Yes, the range is less, and no DME, and with wind, this simple method will cause a curving ground track unless you note the bearing, etc., etc. , but for simply flying to the station, it's simpler. Needle up. Simple. Not better, not more precise, not more useful... just simpler. Grin

Quote:

If you fly with FS in the United States, you can download every sectional chart in the US in jpg format, which can be loaded into FS with the FS Browser module.

Here's some screenshots of how it works

Good old Fashioned Navigation

That is very cool... I didn't think all the US charts were available on line, old or not. I will definitely look into that- thanks.

Quote:

If you prefer real physical charts, I would suggest getting to know local pilots, and management at your local airport and ask them for old charts. I did, and I got sectionals, WAC, terminal, and charts for IFR flying for almost half of this side of the United states. They're several years old now, but are still good for the flight simulator Wink

I make good use of the numerous old charts I have... I get them from a pilot I know: me! Grin

Hadn't thought of asking an FBO for any outdated stock they might otherwise toss out... good idea.

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Reply #14 - Dec 21^st, 2005 at 4:19pm

BFMF Offline
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Hadn't thought of asking an FBO for any outdated stock they might otherwise toss out... good idea.

I believe a lot of FBOs return their charts to the manufacturer for credit, or something like that. But, if you know pilots who do a lot of cross country flying, you might be able to convince them to give you their old charts.

When I was young and living over by seattle, I knew one FBO manager who would keep an eye out for outdated material for me, and when we went flying, he would often have stuff such as charts, and reference material like AFDs and IFR related stuff to give me.

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