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A new Band of Brothers series (Read 1648 times)
Reply #45 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 3:40pm

Hagar   Offline
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I haven't read anything about this for some time but the mutual dislike between Patton & Monty is well known in this country. It could almost be described as hatred. This might be seen differently in the US & I have to admit to a slightly biased view. This petty rivalry had been going on since the Sicily campaign. I found an article on the subject entitled "The cost of Monty and Patton’s war" which I think means a private war between themselves rather than against the common enemy. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1733829,00.html

I can't quote anything on their later disagreements after the Normandy invasion offhand but the Falaise Gap springs to mind.
 

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Reply #46 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 4:29pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Quote:
This petty rivalry had been going on since the Sicily campaign. I found an article on the subject entitled "The cost of Monty and Patton’s war" which I think means a private war between themselves rather than against the common enemy


I agree, and personally, I'm not impressed by either.  To me, the watershed moment for my dislike for Patton was when he slapped a troop and berated him for "merely" having stress due to combat.

Regarding Halsey, I grudingly admire him.  My reservation re: him has to do with him chasing Ozawa's carriers and abandoning his post off Samar.

And I have absolutely no admiration for Stalin.
 

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Reply #47 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 4:33pm

dcunning30   Offline
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BTW, if you're interested in the Battle off Samar, the book, "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" is an excellent read.


Here's come cool pics:

http://www.bosamar.com/combat/combat0.html
 

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Reply #48 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 5:07pm

Hagar   Offline
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I agree, and personally, I'm not impressed by either.

I think there was a lot of political influence from different quarters behind the appointment of both. I always had a great deal of respect for General Eisenhower who must have had a hard time keeping them in check. You mentioned that he threatened Monty with the sack & I believe he also did the same with Patton. I read that Monty didn't think much of Ike's capabilities as a general due to lack of experience in the field but he repected him for his organisational skills which were more important in his position as Supreme Allied Commander. They apparently got on very well considering Monty's prickly nature.

As for Monty's reputation of caring for his men, he might well have done & he undoubtedly inspired the 'Desert Rats' in North Africa who are still loyal to him today. This didn't stop him being completely ruthless with their lives at times & if I recall correctly my father-in-law & his colleagues didn't have the same affection or trust for him. Unfortunately it's to late too ask him to confirm than now as he passed away some years ago. The man they did trust was their immediate commander, Lieutenant General Brian Horrocks. http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/cgi-bin/uk/1118.html
Father-in-law was very impressed with Edward Fox's portrayal of him in the film "A Bridge too Far" & said he had captured his character perfectly. He also looked very much like him.

PS. Thanks for the link.
 

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Reply #49 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 5:28pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Yea, Ike did threaten to sack Patton after the slapping incident.  But Patton was so well liked in the press and public opinion back in the states, Ike just dressed him down and left him cooling his heals commanding a pretend army on June 6th.
 

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Reply #50 - Dec 7th, 2005 at 5:38pm

dcunning30   Offline
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The battle off Samar was truly and epic event.  Because of Halsey's irresponsibility, you have a small screen of DD's and DE's going against a formidable surface fleet of BB's CA's and CL's which included none other than the IJN Yamato.  It should have been a totally one sided slaughter.  The planes from the CVE's only had amrament for bombarding shore installations and that's all their pilots were skilled for.  It truly was an amazing event of epic portportions.  Just amazing.

Heck, the Samuel B Roberts was a Destroyer Escort, underpowered, underarmed, intended for antisubmarine duty only.  She charged headlong  against Japanese cruisers and battleships.  Amazing!  And she was ONLY joined by the Johnston and Hoel, both destroyers.  The other DE's and DD's maintained their screens around the CVE's.  So you had 2 destroyers and 1 destroyer escort charging into about a dozen very large Japanese warships.

Once the pilots from the CVE's ran out of ammunition, they began doing dry runs to harass the Japanese ships.

Please forgive the acronyms:

BB - battleship
CA - cruiser
CL - light cruiser
CVE - escort carrier
DD - destroyer
DE - destroyer escort
« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2005 at 10:13am by dcunning30 »  

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