Simviation Forum - Coyote I have a question for you?

Nov 16^th, 2005 at 1:03am

james007 Offline
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

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Coyote how do I keep Bomber formation tight when attack by fighters together. So many times I see Bomber formation break after been attack by fighter for a few minutes.

This takes away from the immersion factors for those of us who like to mimic real Word war two arial Battles.

I have tried many different methods but non seem to work to my satisfaction.

Another question is mostly for addon planes on takeoff. Many seem to crash soon after takeoff. Thats very frutrating.

Any thing we can do to correct this situation. Perhaps tingle with the airfile of the planes or the mission files with the notepad. I would like to know.

Your help or any body elses whos know how to fix this matter will be appreciated.

Thank you

James007

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Reply #1 - Nov 16^th, 2005 at 10:47am

Cody_Coyote Offline
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Posts: 92

It is frustrating to watch a flight of bombers break formation and buzz around like a bunch of bees. I've not found a perfect solution but I've had my best luck by setting the [MISC_DATA] in the DP file to read:

unit_family=2
category=2

This sets the unit family as "bomber" and the category as "heavy bomber". Generally speaking, when I adjust my bombers to this setting they hold in formation much better. Sometimes they don't break formation at all, behaving just like you want them to.

Of course this isn't practical for smaller, twin-engined bombers which are usually set to category "5", or "light bomber". With that setting they seem to break formation and fight like single seater fighters instead of holding formation.

Anyway, try the family 2, category 2 setting and see if that helps. Remember to delete the CDP file after making your changes or the modifications won't show up.

I can't shed any light on the crashing on takeoff problem. I've seen lots of quirky things with AI planes such as what you describe as well as crashing on landing, not landing at all, veering to the left or right at takeoff and running into buildings, etc. I'm pretty sure all of that is related to how the air file was designed for that particular AI plane but I don't have any expertise with air files so can't help you there.

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Reply #2 - Nov 17^th, 2005 at 1:13am

james007 Offline
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Thank you Coyote. I"ll try that solution you sugested.

Thank you

James007

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Reply #3 - Nov 17^th, 2005 at 1:15pm

jimski Offline
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Is there an aircraft developer out there who can explain how the .air file is made up in the first place and if the AI behaviour is stored in there and if there is much to be done about it from the standpoint of making an AI aircraft behave better. Sounds like this is a constant problem for many of us.

My best solution has been to substitute the .air file from an airplane that behaves the the way I want it to. That doesn't always work right either.

Jimski

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Reply #4 - Nov 18^th, 2005 at 9:11am

Falcon500 Offline
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half the problem is in the air file..... I am not on my home computer right now (at school Tongue

) but i think the section you need is under Primary Aerodynamics (if you're using AirEd Wink

) the header you are looking for is Airframe type i believe, copy this from a B-24 and it should stick together....sry bell rang

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&& The GMax effect The GMax effect

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Reply #5 - Nov 18^th, 2005 at 4:10pm

Falcon500 Offline
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ok back at home and this is right. the B-24 should be 7480.... if you get a 1% aircraft some of them have excel prgrams and on the page AirFileData their is a list of AC and there numbers.

I have found that this really changes the way the aircraft fly, if you switch a b-25 and a corsair the B-25 will try to fly combat manuevers like a Corsair. Kinda funny to watch..

I have noticed that most addon AC have either P-38 or Corsair (airframe types) unless its a bomber then it is treated like a B-24

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&& The GMax effect The GMax effect

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Reply #6 - Nov 20^th, 2005 at 9:28pm

piersyf Offline
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Tasmania, Australia

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Hi all.

An interesting thread to follow; have a similar problem which has now been partially fixed, thanks to you guys.

Have a CFS install dedicated to WW1. Recently downloaded a Hadley Page 0/400 bomber (a CFS1 plane).
I download CFS1 planes occasionally if I can't find one for CFS2. It works fine, need to fix the DP so it actually carries bombs, but hey, it flies.

Set up a mini mission (thanks for the mission builder tutorial, Cody!) where I fly an Albatross DVI to bounce a flight of 0/400's as they take off to bomb Berlin. Was quite frustrating to get there just in time to see them all stand on their tails, stall and crash to the ground.

After reading this thread, went to DPED and looked at the 0/400. Amazing to find the damage box for the tail hanging 12m below the aircraft! (numbers transposed).

OK, fixed them, and altered (actually added) the family/category numbers. Decided to fly the mission again to see what the changes were before touching the airfile.

Joy of joys, they didn't crash! Unfortunately, they do still try to break away ( a climbing turn in an 0/400?) if I chase them, and they stall and crash. At least if I score a single strike on them, I still get credit for the kill Wink

.

Went into Aired, but can't find the Airframe header at all. Checked a 1% airfile, and the list of numbers was right where you said it would be Falcon, but can't find it on the air file for the 0/400 (or any other plane I've looked at). Where abouts on the list is it? (ie, what are the headers above and below, etc)

I did notice that in the 1% airfile there's a mention that CFS1 planes may think they have 20% more HP than they actually do. This may also be a factor in the 0/400 trying to do a climbing turn. However as this is a part of the same Airframe field, I can't adjust it anyway if I can't find it...

Piers

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Reply #7 - Nov 21^st, 2005 at 8:53am

Falcon500 Offline
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its under the "Primary Aerodynamics" usually close to the bottom.

The mission sounds like a joy, the only WWI aircraft i have is a Spad XIII Wink

still fun to harass the WWII enemy aircraf with. Grin

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&& The GMax effect The GMax effect

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Reply #8 - Nov 21^st, 2005 at 9:34am

Bombardier101 Offline
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Thanks for the little fix Cody...Falcon500, I'm often on a school computer doing this too, at home now though Wink

Addon planes.....well they're cheasing me right off in the Nachtjäger campaign! Most Lancaster, Whitley and Stirling leaders just crash. Their wingmen do it right, but later they often crash, or belly land somewhere which is always a nuisance. Also, the Whitley doesn't stay at the altitude from the mission builder. It starts lower!!?! It's great I even got it to fly AI though, since the original FS9-to-CFS2 airfile didn't work; I had to slightly modify Thicko's Stirling one. The maker of the Whitley also had a good looking Stirling, but it's probably another drama waiting to be unleashed if I use it for CFS2. I should try it on FS8 though...

James, it's natural for bombers to 'straggle' if attacked, but I think at the right you described it as, it's absurd. Again, thanks Cody, and James for bringing this topic up. Time to mod my alt DPs some more!

Happy flying,

Bombardier Wink

Need a DP for your new aircraft? PM me for one!&&&&My CFS2 Addons&&&&Schleswig WW2 Base Scenery: http://www.simviation.com/cfs2scenery16.htm&&IJN Bomber Force Campaign http://www.simviation.com/cfs2missions22.htm&&WW&C France WW1 Scenery WORKING ON&&Nachtjaeger! Campaign WORKING ON&&British Nightfighter Campaign LATER&&Atlantic Martlet Campaign LATER&&Iwo-jima scenery RESUME LATER&&&&UPLOADS COMING TO SOH SOON

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Reply #9 - Nov 21^st, 2005 at 4:28pm

Falcon500 Offline
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Northern Michigan, USA

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I have noticed for some unknown reason to me that FS98 dont have the "same type" of AI as cfs2 aircraft have preprogrammed in. they seem to lose altitude while vertically jinking (like coasting) until they hit the ground. i still have no idea how to fix this ??? it seems to me somthing to do with the engines. ???

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&& The GMax effect The GMax effect

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Reply #10 - Nov 21^st, 2005 at 4:28pm

Falcon500 Offline
Colonel
Doing my best, against
the badger!
Northern Michigan, USA

Gender:
Posts: 1026

I have noticed for some unknown reason to me that FS98 dont have the "same type" of AI as cfs2 aircraft have preprogrammed in. they seem to lose altitude while vertically jinking (like coasting) until they hit the ground. i still have no idea how to fix this ??? it seems to me somthing to do with the engines. ???

What do I do you ask? I struggle! Then destroy! Then try to put back together what I just broke on accident.....&&&&&&&&&& The GMax effect The GMax effect

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Reply #11 - Nov 21^st, 2005 at 9:08pm

piersyf Offline
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Tasmania, Australia

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Erm, sorry to butt in, but what Air editor are you using, Falcon? I've used Aired and DPAfe, and neither shows the airframe header, and neither shows Primary Aerodynamics. The field near the bottom is Flight Dynamics (section 1101) but there's no airframe header, and no field that has the right number of digits.

If I can get this fixed, may be tempted to upload a CFS2 version of the 0/400 Grin

Piers

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