Simviation Forum - Typhoons in the states...

Oct 4^th, 2005 at 7:49am

C Offline
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Quote:

"Eurofighter Radars Didn't Spot F/A-22s
Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/03/2005, page 23

Edited by David Bond
Printed headline: Eurorumor Mill

Unconfirmed reports--that is, rumors-- making the rounds in European aerospace industry circles contend that Royal Air Force Eurofighter Typhoons, temporarily operating from Nellis AFB, Nev., were able to pick up U.S. Air Force F/A-22s on their radars, stealth notwithstanding. Similar reports appeared during the 1991 Iraq war concerning the ability of British ships, using large radar arrays, to detect the F-117 and, in later conflicts, the B-2. U.S. officials confirm that the Typhoons were at Nellis to fly with the 422nd Test & Evaluation Sqdn. However, they discount that the Typhoons had seen an F/A-22 in full-configuration stealth. First, they say, the Typhoons and F/A-22s were never in the air at the same time. Second, the F/A-22s always have an enhanced signature for positive air control, except when they go to war or when the range has been cleared for F/A-22-only operations"

Apparently they've been out there for several weeks now. Sadly the USAF have apparently turned down request for a bit of Air Combat with the F/A-22. Must be the memories of the F-15s first encounter with the RN Sea Harriers all those years ago... Wink

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Reply #1 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 8:04am

Craig. Offline
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You know they wont ever let the F22 go into a dogfight with the Typhoon. I remember the storys about the F117 being picked up by British radar, there were many a red face at the USAF Wink

And what are thy doing in the US anyway? hot weather testing? high altitude or just USAF evaluation for perhaps some exports to avoid having to buy so many F22's?

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Reply #2 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 8:16am

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Remember the tale about the B2 being picked up on a radar at Farnbrough one year?

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #3 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 8:34am

C Offline
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Quote:

And what are thy doing in the US anyway? hot weather testing? high altitude or just USAF evaluation for perhaps some exports to avoid having to buy so many F22's?

I expect they are using the US ranges to do lots of stuff they can't do over here...

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Reply #4 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 8:50am

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

I expect they are using the US ranges to do lots of stuff they can't do over here...

Like fly?

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #5 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 9:51am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

Remember the tale about the B2 being picked up on a radar at Farnbrough one year?

You beat me to it. I laughed my socks off when I heard about that. Grin

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Reply #6 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 2:58pm

Ivan Offline
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just a matter of frequency setting and antenna size

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Reply #7 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 11:18pm

SilverFox441 Offline
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The whole thing is actually about stealth...not invisibility.

Too many people think that stealth means you never get seen, in truth stealth is about not getting seen until it is too late to do anything about it.

Detection at short ranges is meaningless, as is detection at places like Farnborough where no planning to avoid detection has taken place. Add to that the fact that the planes are not in wartime trim and you have a receipe for some detection.

Tactically, an F/A-22 would use it's lowest profile to skirt past fixed installations. An F/A-22 is also going to see any air threat far before that threat sees it...and the threat will find itself under fire or having been bypassed.

Maybe the Typhoon did see the '22...but did it see it at a range that wouldn't have meant that there were already AIM-120s inbound?

If not the detection meant nothing more than knowing what killed you. Comforting perhaps in your final seconds...but immaterial in changing the fact that they are your final seconds. Shocked

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly

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Reply #8 - Oct 5^th, 2005 at 2:41am

C Offline
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Quote:

Maybe the Typhoon did see the '22...but did it see it at a range that wouldn't have meant that there were already AIM-120s inbound?

Just as well Typhoon will have Meteor... Just as well they should never have to fight against each other! Grin

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Reply #9 - Oct 5^th, 2005 at 12:33pm

beefhole Offline
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Well about the B-2 at Farnbrough.... let's not forget how stealth technology works.

You don't flip a switch, and BAM you're invisible. The tech creates smaller radar pockets that the aircraft then flies around. It can't fly directly over a radar station at low altitude and not be seen.

Essentially, if it wasn't attempting to avoid detection, then there's nothing special about detecting it.

Would be nice to see some Raptor/Typhoon action though Grin

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Reply #10 - Oct 5^th, 2005 at 1:48pm

C Offline
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Quote:

Well about the B-2 at Farnbrough.... let's not forget how stealth technology works.

Its far simpler than that. However "stealthy" something is, it is just about impossible to not have a radar signature, even though it may be very very small.

Of course, an aircraft visiting an airshow from across the Atlantic would be talking to ATC, who consequently would know where it was and where it was going, and then they'd be able to identify it's return on their radar screens. Consequently I believe all B-2 appearances (in the UK at least) since have been under F-15 escort...

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